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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, V3 - All Wheel Drive? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by Xaqtly Can you get an E63 AMG wagon with AWD? Can you get an RS6 Avant with ...
  1. #46
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaqtly View Post
    Can you get an E63 AMG wagon with AWD? Can you get an RS6 Avant with AWD? Can you get an Aventador with AWD? Can you get a GT-R with AWD? Those are your leading indicators.
    The CTS Vsport and BMW M5 are the leading indicators of what GM will do in the short term, MB and Audi's cool kids notwithstanding. Nissans and Lamborghinis are even less relevant to what GM will do in the short term.

    No doubt AWD will objectively improve performance stats and make the car easier to drive with increasing power levels. (Whether it's more enjoyable is a matter of taste, and of somewhat less importance in this segment.)

    And GM will have a fish-or-cut-bait moment if BMW goes AWD. They may decide, to our collective chagrin, that they can't afford to keep up with the Germans on this particular front. They've already ceded, for the short term anyway, the wagon market. They haven't entered the four-door-coupe market yet, and a CTS coupe is uncertain. And there is still uncertainty of what will happen to this market segment in another generation as fuel economy standards continue to tighten.

    They can continue to find buyers if they build a RWD car that's competitive with the M5. They will lose the all-season daily drivers, but that's a niche of a niche and we already know they can't chase every niche.

    That's why I'm betting the V3 shows up RWD.

    .Jinx

  2. #47
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Oh it probably will be RWD, but I don't think GM's engineers are as much the slaves to the M5 as you seem to be suggesting they are. If you think they're not looking long and hard at the 2014 E63, I can promise you you're wrong. No high profile car company is that myopic. Whether they implement AWD or not, it's not going to be because of what the M5 is doing. They're probably not going to pipe fake engine noises through the speakers, either.

    If they're smart, and we know they are, they are already testing the M5, the E63, and probably the RS6 too, to see what direction they like better. But regardless, if they decide not to go with AWD they're going to have to put fatter tires in the rear. Merc and BMW had taken two different approaches to making this power level in a sedan manageable, and from what I've read the M5 (the new one) has close to the same issues we do in terms of putting power down. It has slightly larger and wider wheels which helps, but the turbos give it vastly more torque than the V10 M5 had.

    Here's a snippet from one review I read from somebody who drove the new M5:

    I experienced extreme traction issues though and it was very hard to launch from a dig. On the highway its a different story.
    -Why doesnt it have AWD as an option for those who need it?
    Sound familiar? I'm sure the V guys are acutely aware of this issue, I'm just hoping they do something to fix it. My preferred solution would be AWD a la the E63, so it still feels like a RWD car just with a lot more straight line traction and the ability to manhandle apexes with authority.

  3. #48
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    I am not suggesting that they are slaves to the M5. However, the continued existence of a RWD M5 legitimizes a RWD supersedan. Basically, GM may be able to get away with RWD if the Bavarians are still doing it.

    I'm also quite sure that GM has considered the MB and Audi competition in their analysis. Of course no high profile car company is that myopic, and I should think we've traded enough posts now that you would know better than to imply that I'm that naive.

    And yes, obviously, the V3 is going to need better traction, especially if it's RWD.

    .Jinx

  4. #49
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    Of course no high profile car company is that myopic, and I should think we've traded enough posts now that you would know better than to imply that I'm that naive.
    I thought so too until you said "And GM will have a fish-or-cut-bait moment if BMW goes AWD". What I'm saying is no they won't. They use the M5 as a relative benchmark, but nothing BMW does will actively influence GM's direction mid-design. If GM wants to keep it RWD, BMW going to AWD won't change that. If GM likes the idea of AWD and wants to implement it, the M5 staying RWD won't change that.

    And frankly I don't think GM needs BMW to legitimize anything they do. The CTS-V came out and destroyed the E60 M5, I'd say at this point GM can write their own ticket. There was no M5 wagon in the US, GM didn't need BMW to legitimize the CTS-V wagon, for example. I'm just saying, even if the next CTS-V is RWD, it's not because the M5 is still RWD. We're way past that now, AWD is completely legit in the world of supercars and sports cars regardless of what BMW is doing, and so is RWD.

    I'm just hoping the V team drives the new E63 S and/or the RS6 and decide they like having traction after all, haha. But as with BMW, I don't think GM needs the E63 or the RS6 or the GT-R to legitimize AWD. I think all they need is the realization that having wheelspin at 60 MPH is uncool, and having wheelspin every time you exit a corner is not the fastest way to do it.
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  5. #50
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    BMW got caught with their pants down when MB went AWD. AWD M5 is undoubtedly in BMW's future. Question is will AWD make it into the CTS-V before it gets into the M5? It's not if, it's when. Admittedly, I also don't believe CTS-V 3 will debut with available AWD. I'm just confident it's in CTS-V's future.

  6. #51
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Another all-wheel-drive car from MB - CLA45 or A45.
    0 to 60 4.1 seconds?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPzCbTNpPWg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBQiG7yanog

    Cadillac has to do something to keep up with competition.

  7. #52
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Eh I'd pass on the cla. Ill take my front wheels out front, not under me. Just doesn't look right. Mazda figured a way to push the front wheels a little further out on the fwd Mazda 6. Pretty interesting. And it's the best looking 4 door fwd family sedan out there.

  8. #53
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    The CLA is a rich man's Toyota Yaris. Almost identical. Disgusting, really...
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  9. #54
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    "...nothing BMW does will actively influence GM's direction mid-design." Of course not. But to suggest that the competitors' choices don't matter to the market goes too far. Especially for a Cadillac that hasn't yet erased its prestige deficit.

  10. #55
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    The CLA is a rich man's Toyota Yaris. Almost identical. Disgusting, really...
    How can you say that the CLA and Toyota Yaris are almost identical?

    yaris-watches.jpg CLA45 AMG_opt (1).jpg
    Attached Images

  11. #56
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Damn that thing is ugly. All the proportions are wrong. Like a Civic rear-ended a Mondeo.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedboss1 View Post
    How can you say that the CLA and Toyota Yaris are almost identical?

    <img src="http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=144770"/> <img src="http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=144786"/>
    You have the wrong Yaris. Look up the LAST generation 4 door Yaris...

  13. #58
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    That thing sucks. And that's probably the least flattering view of it too. Reminds me of the xts from the side.

  14. #59
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    You have the wrong Yaris. Look up the LAST generation 4 door Yaris...
    I got the picture straight from Toyota's 2014 website:
    http://www.toyota.com/yaris/#!/Welcome

  15. #60
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    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tedboss1 View Post
    I got the picture straight from Toyota's 2014 website:
    http://www.toyota.com/yaris/#!/Welcome
    You have the wrong Yaris. Look up the LAST generation 4 door Yaris...

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