V3 - All Wheel Drive? - Page 3
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 63
Like Tree9Likes
2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, V3 - All Wheel Drive? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Can you get a CTS Vsport with AWD? Can you get a BMW M5 with AWD? Those are your leading ...
  1. #31
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2013 CTS-V estate
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,202

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Can you get a CTS Vsport with AWD?
    Can you get a BMW M5 with AWD?

    Those are your leading indicators.

    Yeah, AWD sells in the frozen north, but Cadillac will Vsport a SRX and point you to the XTS Vsport and call it a day.

  2. #32
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2009 STS-V; 1979 Coupe Deville, 2012 Chevy Cruze Eco Manual
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Whitestone, NY
    Age
    26
    Posts
    2,845

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    No they won't. The v sport not having awd will change. It's just an other example of GM not having it ready. I would bet good money that the cts v sport will have RWD. M5? I think everyone was blind sided by mb. I think you will see it in the future. If GM has your mind state they'll just be following BMW some more because m5 will eventually offer awd. These automakers are missing out on more sales than you think by not offering these performance oriented variants of these sedans in awd.

    I love nothing more than RWD but I am from NYC and ill be moving back in less than a year so awd means something to me.

    Cadillac pointing you to srx and xts v sport and calling it a day is the old way of thinking at GM.

    If GM had the $$ you'd have an awd cts v sport already.

  3. #33
    Zhariak is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2013 Escalade ESV Platinum, 2013 CTS-V Coupe 6MT
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Age
    28
    Posts
    623

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    In for my 2 cents....

    With my love for my Cadillac's, I plan on holding on to my 13 V-Coupe (love the manual transmission and RWD), however wouldn't mind picking up a 3rd Gen V as well if it had these.

    I want:

    -To stay with a coupe
    -Over 630HP
    -AWD
    -Dual clutch high performance transmission with paddle shifters
    -Digital dash/tac, but a high def, clear, crisp one that is responsive, and doesn't have an "old" look to it
    -Information on vehicle stats/status available on the NAV display
    -And of course new BAD ass styling... Every time I go out for lunch/dinner, and walk outside for a cigarette, I'm in awe of my car, Mwhahaha I love it! Always attracts a few people who look inside at the interior/setup.


    Things I know we'll get that I want changed:

    -Don't care about CUE, but wish we could have real buttons (not haptic feedback touch buttons). Choice to use the screen, or "real" buttons would be awesome!
    -I hope it has the same Caddillac logo as the 13 V coupe, I don't want that "new" Cadillac logo that I was reading about in other threads

    Pointless things which could be "cool":

    -Function to keep the rear view cam on in a competitive or sport mode for the track
    -Driver preferences get saved (competitive mode, suspension modes) when the vehicle is turned off/on. Or a single switch inside the vehicle that by switching it once, changes the suspension, traction, and seat configuration.... When I feel like driving hard, I like the seat to hug more then when I'm just chilling, single switch to change all these would be rad!


    I know the tranny, power, and AWD will cost $$$. But let's say Cadillac did this right, and I mean really right, I wouldn't mind dishing out $120,000 for that!

  4. #34
    Stop&Turnfreak's Avatar
    Stop&Turnfreak is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): CTS-V
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    21

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    As someone who has owned several AWD track cars (4 Evos) and 'borrowed' a buddies GTR one summer while he was doing his stent overseas, I wanted to chime in. AWD would be GREAT, but know, you will create alot of potential problems at our power level, unless they really over engineer the system. Clutches, T-cases, and other components will shatter when things get harsh, especially if you have a good tire / suspension package on the car. For any track car I built that had more than 500whp, I had to modify the clutch and t-case, or I would have heat and stability issues. Launching an AWD car is VERY hard on the driveline, and I would suspect the tranny would also need alot of reworking. But, greater than all of this would be weight and the AWD tech required to make the system work well. I am simply not sure that GM has the back ground to do a system like MB, Nissan, or Audi, which have good reliable systems, that work very well, and have intelligence to only act when required, rather than a simple system like the first gen evos had. And the weight would push this car to stellar territory. My Evos at race weight with manual transmissions were ~3200 with me in the car (200lb), and my Evo MR w/ auto was ~3750. I like the way our cars feel now, and woudl miss the 'raw' driving impression it gives, BUT if GM could make the car lighter and build a system that had the intelligence of the GTR or Audi, then I may reconsider, and deal with the weight.

  5. #35
    Xaqtly's Avatar
    Xaqtly is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2011 WD Vagon 6MT "Unobtainicorn"
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,049

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    Can you get a CTS Vsport with AWD?
    Can you get a BMW M5 with AWD?

    Those are your leading indicators.
    Can you get an E63 AMG wagon with AWD? Can you get an RS6 Avant with AWD? Can you get an Aventador with AWD? Can you get a GT-R with AWD? Those are your leading indicators. If you can prove how AWD hampers performance in those cars, that will be the end of the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by MEDISIN View Post
    Modified??
    No, and that's the point. The STi is not faster than the CTS-V by a long shot - but its handling and precision is superior, and its AWD system allows it to rip through corners considerably faster than the CTS-V can. This is one of the ways an AWD system would benefit the CTS-V, in addition to the obvious traction benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by MEDISIN View Post
    The power to weight ratio is likely better than 8.2lbs.
    I see what you're saying, but I'm going with the published HP numbers in both cases.
    Guy.Seminerio likes this.

  6. #36
    RaVeNous is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2011 CTS-V Coupe
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Age
    39
    Posts
    776

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Show me the stock STI time that beats the 2009 CTS-V.

    2011 - not stock

    http://www.worldcarfans.com/11305075...d-for-a-subaru

    2011 by a professional race car driver...interstingly enough the same time as the above modified car.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ing-lap-record


    There are some EVO times that are better, but I'm not sure if they are stock or special tuner editions or what. I get your point regardless. I would hardly car a Subaru STI a performance sedan....just because it has 4 doors... Its a compact car. Its lighter weight, and significantly physically smaller. I would imagine its more agile. Is is really supposed to compete with E Class, Audi, 3-5 series etc... They are freaking small ass cars - I looked at getting one.

  7. #37
    MPNX2 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Age
    36
    Posts
    33

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Looks like they are offering the XTS VSport with AWD...

    http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/xts/2014/road-test.html

  8. #38
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
    RippyPartsDept is offline Hi, I'm Chris - Please Read My Signature
    Automobile(s): 1999 DeVille "Bianca" (white/blue, VIN-Y, 160k)
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Age
    34
    Posts
    13,996

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    XTS VSport is only available as AWD
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at Rippy Automotive
    Rippy is a Cadillac, Hummer, Saturn & Saab dealership & Official Saab Service Center
    ~~ Family owned and operated in Wilmington, NC since 1946 ~~
    We offer all forum members discounts on parts and freight
    phone: 800-RIPPY-22
    <-- insert standard boilerplate about posts not necessarily representing my employer, etc -->

  9. #39
    edsuski is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    196

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    XTS VSport is only available as AWD
    This was the whole idea behind this subject. Could GM get the AWD system to handle the added power of the V3? The XTS VSport is putting out 410 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque. AWD has so many benefits and the current platform will easily accommodate 600 - 700 hp, so adding enough power to compensate for the added weight of an AWD system (in the V3) should be easily possible for the manufacturer.

    As for the "suggestion" that GM may not be able to “do it right” - I take exception. The entire V2 program was proof that GM engineers can produce world class luxury sports cars. Now simply challenging them to do this again, with an AWD platform that allowed the driver to put the available power to the ground, would just be another example of GM's engineering prowess. The CTS-V proved that GM does not have to worry about counting every penny and cutting every corner to make a platform a success. GM has some of the BEST automotive engineers on this planet! Bar none! Throw down the challenge to them and say - "make it the best AWD system on the market". Would that be difficult – sure, but keep in mind that GM has a long history of innovating. It is not like they would be starting from zero. There are plenty of good examples of AWD systems that work in sports cars. I think they could surprise the automotive world once again.

    We just need to stop complaining about paying people living wages and retiree benefits and build a car that people will pay a couple of thousand dollars more for. I would gladly pay even $10K more for my V2 today - than I did in 2008/2009. It is just that good a vehicle! Straight from Detroit!

  10. #40
    MEDISIN is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2011 CTS-V Sedan
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Age
    34
    Posts
    112

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post
    Show me the stock STI time that beats the 2009 CTS-V.

    2011 - not stock

    http://www.worldcarfans.com/11305075...d-for-a-subaru

    2011 by a professional race car driver...interstingly enough the same time as the above modified car.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ing-lap-record
    The one reported in C&D wasn't a production car either.

    "The stickler is that the Subaru in question wasn’t a production car. It was, in the words of the company, a 2011 Impreza WRX STI prototype. The car is basically the bastard child of two JDM-only models with some extra bespoke aero bits thrown in for slipperiness and high-speed stability.

    The car starts with the suspension from the improved-for-2011 WRX STI—it’s 5 mm lower than the 2010 model, with 1-mm-thicker front and rear anti-roll bars, higher-rate springs all around, stiffer rear-subframe bushings, and new front-suspension pillow-ball bushings. The engine is the Japanese-market STI spec.c’s, a 2.0-liter turbocharged boxer-four that’s been given the larger turbo from the R205, another Japanese special-edition STI model. It’s now putting out a claimed 320 hp, which makes the time that much more impressive when compared with the Panamera’s 500 turbocharged ponies (although the Porsche is surely carrying around a few hundred extra pounds). The R205 also donates six-piston front brakes and a front strut-tower brace; it features a flexible center portion that allows vertical motion but maintains lateral stiffness. Weight is saved through the use of an aluminum hood from the spec.c, unique aluminum front fenders, the spec.c’s smaller battery, and the deletion of the radio as in the R205 and spec.c. Extra aero parts specific to this car include a full undertray, a front-lip extension tacked onto the R205’s lower spoiler, and a Gurney flap added—taped, really—to the rear at Mäkinen’s request. (The car was getting a bit out of shape without it in the high-speed sections.) A full roll cage and race buckets fitted with a five-point harness for the driver and a four-point for the passenger make things safe."


    ----------

    I'm not convinced the V3 must have AWD to compete, especially on the track. Look what the C7 did to the GTR.

    http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cor...son-test1.html

    The GTR has more power, AWD and costs $47,000 more but is still slower around Streets of Willow than the RWD C7.

  11. #41
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2009 STS-V; 1979 Coupe Deville, 2012 Chevy Cruze Eco Manual
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Whitestone, NY
    Age
    26
    Posts
    2,845

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    I don't know too much about this stuff, but I don't think there is any sense in trying to find out if the AWD system in the XTS V Sport can handle the power they'll put in the CTS-V3. My reason is that I believe the AWD system on the XTS is different than the one on the CTS-V would be. Reason for that is the X is FWD based and the C is RWD based. I'd think it would be completely different. Please correct me if I'm wrong. For one, XTS is limited as to how much power it can push to the rear wheels while the CTS-V's AWD system would be RWD biased (putting more power to the rears than to the fronts) like it is in the STS and CTS. What I think would be great is if the CTS-V with AWD that doesn't even exist yet, could vary the power going between the wheels so that the rears would get 100% until traction is lost, or about to be lost. At that point, the excess power causing the rears to (almost) lose traction is transferred to the front wheels, just enough to where the rears are at their limit. Power should be shared not only between front and rear tires, but side to side. Taking a left turn for example, the left tires will want to spin. Just before this happens, the car should redirect the torque to the right wheels. This setup would provide optimal performance. This technology exists. I think acura does this with their super handling awd. Classy name.

    But AWD setups in general can handle that much power. See lamborghini.

    Again, that whole setup would allow for better traction in weather, which will mean much more sales.

    It will also outperform the RWD variant on the track, or on the strip. Here we are again with technology adding to sheer performance numbers while possibly taking away from the thrill and driving enjoyment. I'm sure a lot of you have read about the new 911 GT3 and it's lack of a clutch pedal. Porsche talks about track times and how much they'll improve. Sure, but to a degree, at the expense of driving enjoyment.

    Anyone can just mash the pedal coming out of a turn and let the computers figure out the traction situation (I'm looking at you, GTR and Audi) but it's much more fun, and entertaining trying to perfect that corner exit with just enough power not to swing the back out and cost precious seconds. Or if you're into it, to be able to swing the back out for the fun of it. How about recording some burnouts before a tire change. Sorry AWD.

    I would want AWD in a daily driver, but on a track? RWD manual. Bottom line, they should offer both. Easier said than done.

    ----------

    Oh and in the case of Corvettes vs GTRs on the track, the ZR1 pulls away from the GTR at higher speeds (when traction is no longer an issue) and it far surpasses the GTR in cornering ability which is why the RWD car walks away from the AWD GTR on a track. But run a ZR1 against a non existent AWD ZR1? I'd say the AWD will win around the track.

    Again, not interested in being a little faster at the expense of the thrill of mastering a RWD beast around a track. I'll take RWD around the track.

    ----------

    The article at the link that MEDSIN posted says it all. The following is a paragraph straight out of the article talking about the GTR:

    "Chuck the GT-R into a corner, any corner, and it sticks through the bend and rockets out the other side. But it never surprises and never actually excites. It's frightening in the same way as commercial air travel. It's the conscious thought of the speed you're traveling and the consequences thereof that raises hairs, not the direct knowledge that you're in control of something special."

    This one is on the Vette. The base, C7 Vette which was slower on the drag strip but beat the GTR around the track. Nice:

    "And there's the difference: Even with the safety net of PTM, you always feel responsible for the actions of the C7 in a way you don't with the GT-R. Oversteer? Your fault. Understeer? Your fault. A perfectly clipped apex followed by an astonishing corner exit speed? Yep, your fault."
    Tedboss1 likes this.

  12. #42
    neuronbob's Avatar
    neuronbob is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2013 6MT V wagon, OBM, 2009 silver V sedan (traded)
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cleveland area, OH
    Age
    46
    Posts
    4,242

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    I guarantee you that the Cadillac performance engineers are having, or have already had, the same discussion as is ongoing here. We will see, perhaps in another year or so, which side won. If we don't see AWD in a V3, maybe we will in a V4.

    Only time will tell.

    PS I'd lease an RS6 Avant in a heartbeat. Of course, I'd keep my V wagon.

  13. #43
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): ZIP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the barrel of a gun...
    Posts
    49,532
    And even the RS cars are nose heavy and push on the front end...

  14. #44
    Xaqtly's Avatar
    Xaqtly is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2011 WD Vagon 6MT "Unobtainicorn"
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,049

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post
    I get your point regardless. I would hardly car a Subaru STI a performance sedan....just because it has 4 doors... Its a compact car. Its lighter weight, and significantly physically smaller. I would imagine its more agile. Is is really supposed to compete with E Class, Audi, 3-5 series etc... They are freaking small ass cars - I looked at getting one.
    What you call it doesn't matter, and I know how big they are, I've owned one. The important part is that you get my point. The STi is one example, I could come up with a lot more, but what I'm saying is that a good AWD system would immensely benefit the CTS-V. RWD is great for hanging the tail out and doing burnouts, but when you don't have enough tire and grip, the amount of HP we have is a curse, not as blessing, at least when you're trying to take a turn or go around a track quickly. Or leave a stop quickly. Or use full throttle at anything below freeway speeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by MEDISIN View Post

    I'm not convinced the V3 must have AWD to compete, especially on the track. Look what the C7 did to the GTR.

    http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/cor...son-test1.html

    The GTR has more power, AWD and costs $47,000 more but is still slower around Streets of Willow than the RWD C7.
    The GT-R was also faster in 0-60, 1/4 mile, and the slalom. If you're going to mention some facts, mention all of them. Streets is a tiny handling track, the GT-R would destroy the Stingray on a big power track (like the Nurburgring). In fact on the 'ring, the GT-R from almost 3 years ago is within 5 seconds of the ZR-1, which was on the optional pilot sport cup ZP tires. But don't get me wrong, I love the Stingray. I believe it's on the same "bargain of the century" level as the CTS-V, for pure bang for the buck. I'm pushing my gf really hard to buy one, because I think it's the best Vette ever made. But I'm getting off topic, this is about whether AWD would benefit the CTS-V or not.

    The issue is that the CTS-V does not have enough traction/wide enough tires/AWD. The Z06 and ZR-1 solved this problem by slapping 12" wheels with 335mm tires on the rear. Ask the D3 guys, their race cars all have much wider than stock rear wheels. The E63 solved it by adding AWD. The Stingray, at least with the Z51 package, has larger wheels with extremely sticky tires, and the rest is the ~1,000 lb weight difference between it and the V. So assuming the V3 V isn't going to lose 1,000 lbs, it's either going to need vastly wider wheels and vastly wider tires a la Z06/ZR-1, or it's going to need AWD.

    Or it will continue to have traction problems, that's the other option. The reason I believe AWD is a good option is because it doesn't just help in a straight line. It helps everywhere, it helps in turns, it helps exiting turns, it helps in inclement weather, it helps you use all the power the engine makes, instead of just some of it. I'm ok with RWD too, I just don't want to see a new V with some reduced weight, some added HP, and the same RWD and 285-width tires on the rear.

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    And even the RS cars are nose heavy and push on the front end...
    They used to, but not too much any more. The last RS6's engine was pushed way back into the car to make it better balanced, and they used all lightweight materials in the bay to reduce weight. Prior to that the engine was hanging out over the front bumper which was pretty bad. For example the new RS7's weight distribution is 56/44%, F/R which is almost the same as the CTS-V.
    Tedboss1 likes this.

  15. #45
    Tedboss1 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTSV Auto
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    835

    Re: V3 - All Wheel Drive?

    Did you guys see the Car&Driver article about the 2014 CLS63 AMG with all-wheel-drive?
    0 to 62 mph 3.6 seconds.
    I'm sure price will be well above $100K.
    http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...-and-info-news

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting