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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Cars with worse fuel economy in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; "I'm not sure what you're worried about." As I said in my original post, having a handy and easily-understood-by-laymen statement ...
  1. #31
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    "I'm not sure what you're worried about." As I said in my original post, having a handy and easily-understood-by-laymen statement that puts the fuel consumption of the CTS-V in perspective. A statement that can quickly and gently diffuse a "casual" ignorant and generally hyperbolic comment made by someone that I know and actually need to maintain a functioning amicable relationship with.

    In 2005, with the C6 Corvette, this was really easy. It wasn't just better than laymen expected, it was quite likely better than what they were driving AND competitive with whatever "perfectly reasonable" new thing they would buy if they could.

    I knew the CTS-V in 2013 wasn't like that, but what I didn't realize until I actually dug into the numbers was how close to the bottom it is.

    Sure, the reasons for the CTS-V's fuel economy are not mysterious, but explaining why it's not better is not a mind-changing response.


    As to your other comments --

    The CTS-V is not bigger than a 5-series. It has less head room and shoulder room front and rear, same rear leg room, and less cargo capacity (sedan). Outside it's the same width and height but it's both narrower and shorter by two inches and has a shorter wheelbase. I think it's fair to say it's a bit smaller than a 5-series. (OTOH as fat as it may be it's still 167 pounds lighter than the 2013 M5.)

    "Basically the same mpg" is not really.
    1mpg more than 14mpg is 7% better.
    4mpg more than 19mpg is 21% better.

    And it doesn't matter that the CTS-V was designed in 2008 -- it's for sale in 2013 and I bought one in 2013, so it's not inappropriate to compare it to other new cars in 2013.

    If nothing else this underlines how important it is for GM to keep platform updates significant and on schedule, now more than ever. Yesterday's "not bad" can be today's "not buying."


    Anyway, I think I've found a couple of "well that's reasonable" benchmarks that still give the old argument legs. The CTS-V wagon has better overall fuel economy than the:
    Durango 4WD V8 (13/20, 15)
    Grand Cherokee 4WD V8 (13/20, 15)
    Silverado/Sierra 4WD even with the V6 (14/18, 15)
    Ram 1500 4WD V8 (13/19, 15)
    Escalade/Denali AWD and Navigator 4WD (13/18, 15)
    Toyota Sequoia 2WD, Tundra 2WD and 4WD (13/18, 15)
    Nissan Armada 2WD (12/19, 15)

    I know it's not shocking that big 4WD trucks and SUVs get slightly worse fuel economy, but it's good to see we haven't slipped that far down yet.

    Alas, there isn't a single car on the list that isn't a sports car, a top-of-the-line luxury car, or a super sports sedan. Not surprising, just disappointing.

    As for what's the same overall 16mpg, we get the M5 and the M6s and even the old M3, all of the 2WD V8 SUVs... and the one I'm happiest to see, the Toyota FJ Cruiser 4WD, simply because I know someone who has one (and uses it offroad for fun) and nobody thinks ill of it.

    But I'll still keep looking for a clearer "chill out, judgemental non-car-person, it's not like we're killing puppies here" statement.

    ----------

    Xactly -- cool stats. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

  2. #32
    RaVeNous is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    If you are worried about 1-2 mpg difference, drive a Prius. Obviously the smiles per mile are not as important to you as meeting current cafe standards, or making sure that a car released in 2008 isn't on the cutting edge of fuel economy in terms of meeting these current cafe standards.

    "I'm not sure what you're worried about." As I said in my original post, having a handy and easily-understood-by-laymen statement that puts the fuel consumption of the CTS-V in perspective. A statement that can quickly and gently diffuse a "casual" ignorant and generally hyperbolic comment made by someone that I know and actually need to maintain a functioning amicable relationship with.

    Put away the thesaurus and quite trying to sound like a magazine article. Technically, its not even grammatically correct, but I digress. In addition, I am not one to judge as I can't write for sh#t. so just ignore my previous statement. I'm just being a D-bag for arguments sake.

    I'm really not sure what answer you are seeking on your quest. I mean are there other cars in the $70,000 Range getting better mpg? I mean maybe..shrug. Personally I find it very obtuse to disregard that the fact the current V is based on a 5 year old tech when trying to compare it to the most curret competition. Are you going to gripe because its 19-20mpg hwy rather than 23-24? Splitting hairs?

    I mean at that point aren't you just searching for a reason to be disappointed to justify purchasing a different car? I don't think many people will scold you for upgrading to a $100,000 supercar. I know I wouldn't. However; being disapponted in the 2009 CTS-V platform because of 1-2 mpg, is like being disappointed that your girlfriend only lasted 4.3 minutes the night before during deep throat rather than 6.4minutes. I'm just saying. As you stated you're not disappointed in your car. If someone asks about mpg, maybe you should just say "I have no idea, who cares" because as you pointed out, you didn't buy the car to reduce your carbon foot print!

    In the end, I think its as good of argument as any, as far as discussing mpg with "others" to defer to "ehh its not really any worse than typical large cars on the road, but is significantly faster, more comfortable, and better looking"!!
    ....because its not really worse than similarly sized cars on the road that perform significantly worse.

    Also, the V while its isn't at the cutting edge of MPG/HP ratios (an insignificant amount imho) of the 2014 model years, it still gets really good mpg when compared to the majority of vehicles on the road making 400hp or more, and almost all SUV/Trucks with a V8 which account for a lot of market share. The majority of vehicles on the road are not 2012-2014 model years, so I'd say its safe to conclude that the V is not yet outdated!

  3. #33
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    Ymmv

  4. #34
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    You know, you don't HAVE to be so confrontational, RaVeNous. I used sentence fragments on purpose. And I didn't need a thesaurus. (See? Did it on purpose again. And again. I can't be stopped.) This is the way I use the language; if you can spot grammar like that I'm sure you can keep up.

    I'm not disappointed in the car, I'm just bummed that my go-to polite STFU response doesn't have much bite anymore. Sure, "who cares because AWESOME" is a fine old saw.

    But yeah, 23mpg is significantly better than 19mpg. That's just math. Maybe it's splitting hairs if we're comparing two individual cars in the context of the total industrial pollution of China, but just comparing two cars on the same road trip it's significant. Of course, at present, most people are pretty clueless about fuel economy and the non-linear nature of 1mpg improvements in terms of fuel consumption.

    But be careful -- the CTS-V gets WORSE fuel economy than the 2WD V8 "half-ton" pickups that are the most popular vehicles sold today. It's only better than the 6+litre and 4WD models. Sure, still better than most of the pickups that are on the road but making that point just makes it sound closer to obsolescence. And maybe it is. Hell, I bought it in large part because it's probably not going to be built five years from now...

    Finally, there's a benefit to the CTS-V wagon that the Corvette didn't have. Boring people don't know what it is. It's mostly invisible, or at least quickly dismissed. Only four people mentioned it at work, and three of them wished it was theirs.

  5. #35
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    Somebody give Ravie a hug.

  6. #36
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    Sorry, I didn't read it all before I posted, so I don't know if this has been said. But my buddy claims around 8-10 in his ford lightning. He does have a clogged cat which probably doesn't help...

    ----------

    Hell, my 2004 S4 only gets 12-15 mpg (95% spirited city driving).

  7. #37
    stl_ls1gto is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    What a pointless thread this turned out to be

  8. #38
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    Was the thread title misleading? Or did early posts set an expectation that later posts left unfilfilled? Remember, if you ever have a reason not to check "completely satisfied," let us know so that we can address it!

  9. #39
    Uebele is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Need to change the discussion to "total energy consumption" over the life of the car, and our cars might not look all that bad. Look for a report called "dust to dust comparison". The report is a few years old now, but it did show the Prius near the bottom of the list. The fancy hybrid cars require a lot of energy to make and dispose of. Simple technology like a pushrod v8's are easy to make by comparison. I look at Prius drivers in a whole new light after reading that report.

  10. #40
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    I suspect the total energy consumption view would favor not buying a new car in the first place, but rather running an old one for a lot longer than is typical. In my case forever since my last ride was 50% more efficient than the CTS-V

  11. #41
    RaVeNous is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cars with worse fuel economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Uebele View Post
    Need to change the discussion to "total energy consumption" over the life of the car, and our cars might not look all that bad. Look for a report called "dust to dust comparison". The report is a few years old now, but it did show the Prius near the bottom of the list. The fancy hybrid cars require a lot of energy to make and dispose of. Simple technology like a pushrod v8's are easy to make by comparison. I look at Prius drivers in a whole new light after reading that report.
    Not just energy but environmental impact. The lithium batteries are toxic, and as you point out, a lot of energy goes into production, maintenance, and disposal. At least with hybrids they aren't ONLY using electricity produced by a powerplant....

  12. #42
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  13. #43
    Uebele is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    I just looked for that report to add a link to it here. Unfortunately it looks like the research company which created it is now selling it. I actually have an evaluation copy of it, wink, wink, but it is something like a 28 meg PDF. If anyone is interested I can try to put it in drop box or something.

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