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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, cts-v 2011 with headers and tuned by vette doctors in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by Regency How deep was the water I have a WK1 SRT8 with a bwoody 4" and a ...
  1. #16
    baabootoo is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: cts-v 2011 with headers and tuned by vette doctors

    Quote Originally Posted by Regency View Post
    How deep was the water I have a WK1 SRT8 with a bwoody 4" and a tad nervous
    I know of an insurance company that covered water damage when the engine hydro locked; even due to a CAI.

  2. #17
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    RocketV is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Don't let anyone tell you they can "Take the tune out" if you have to bring your car into the dealer, either. Once the ECM is modified, the trace is there forever. I sold the long tube headers for my Z06 without ever installing them because their use required a tune (as does the engine in our V's, I would suspect) and I wasn't about to risk killing the warranty in that expensive engine. Luckily, I didn't lose much money, but a little better research would have saved me some trouble.

  3. #18
    hcvone is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: cts-v 2011 with headers and tuned by vette doctors

    What most of us do when modding cars is to buy a new stock computer, get is flashed and put the new computer in your car, get your car tuned to your mods (dyno tuning) take the stock computer keep it in the box for if you need to visit the dealership put it back in, on Escalade's and the CTSv it's a few minute change over, the Covette takes a little longer. I hear this is done a lot.

  4. #19
    Mike02z's Avatar
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    Re: cts-v 2011 with headers and tuned by vette doctors

    I see a few issues with your approach Carl. This may work if all you did was tune the ECM with no other changes. If you run headers you'll most likely get a code because the stock ECM does not like when the O2's are moved. I know a few guys that added LT headers and tried to leave the factory tune and it would still throw codes as the O2's don't get hot enough. This will cause you to fail emissions in most states. Without headers you'll probably only see 20-30 HP with just a tune. The question is, is it worth it for 20-30 HP on a 561 HP car?

    The second issue is more of a personal issue. I feel like doing this would be unethical. I'm not passing judgement here, but for me, this takes it too far. If I modify the ECM I know it voids the power train warranty. I just could not in good conscience swap out ECM's if I blew the engine due to an over aggressive tune. The other non personal issue I see is that the ECM logs certain information. If you blow the engine, swap ECM's won't there be data missing that GM would see once the ECM data was uploaded? Not sure but I suspect this is the case.

    Again, I am not passing judgement on anyone. The above is my personal feeling on swapping ECM's to get around GM's policy of modding an ECM = No power train warranty.

  5. #20
    hcvone is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: cts-v 2011 with headers and tuned by vette doctors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike02z View Post
    I see a few issues with your approach Carl. This may work if all you did was tune the ECM with no other changes. If you run headers you'll most likely get a code because the stock ECM does not like when the O2's are moved. I know a few guys that added LT headers and tried to leave the factory tune and it would still throw codes as the O2's don't get hot enough. This will cause you to fail emissions in most states. Without headers you'll probably only see 20-30 HP with just a tune. The question is, is it worth it for 20-30 HP on a 561 HP car?

    The second issue is more of a personal issue. I feel like doing this would be unethical. I'm not passing judgement here, but for me, this takes it too far. If I modify the ECM I know it voids the power train warranty. I just could not in good conscience swap out ECM's if I blew the engine due to an over aggressive tune. The other non personal issue I see is that the ECM logs certain information. If you blow the engine, swap ECM's won't there be data missing that GM would see once the ECM data was uploaded? Not sure but I suspect this is the case.

    Again, I am not passing judgement on anyone. The above is my personal feeling on swapping ECM's to get around GM's policy of modding an ECM = No power train warranty.
    No dealership I deal with will void your warranty for headers, you know this to be true because you use the same Chevy dealership, but I am sure there are some that will void your warranty, just like some dealerships will void your warranty if your car is seen on the race track (happens on the CF) I have long tube headers on all my cars and trucks, never got an error code, but a lot of that is who is doing the work, I have the same person from 1981, never blew an engine or any problems from my builder, but then again I would not have used the same person for the last 30 plus years if I had problems, and all my cars/trucks pass PA . If you get a tune that blows your engine you used the wrong tuner. I know this to be pretty common and in fact I first heard about is 5-6 years ago on the CF, I just like to go fast and found the 550 hp just not enough.

  6. #21
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    Re: cts-v 2011 with headers and tuned by vette doctors

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvone View Post
    No dealership I deal with will void your warranty for headers, you know this to be true because you use the same Chevy dealership, but I am sure there are some that will void your warranty, just like some dealerships will void your warranty if your car is seen on the race track (happens on the CF) I have long tube headers on all my cars and trucks, never got an error code, but a lot of that is who is doing the work, I have the same person from 1981, never blew an engine or any problems from my builder, but then again I would not have used the same person for the last 30 plus years if I had problems, and all my cars/trucks pass PA . If you get a tune that blows your engine you used the wrong tuner. I know this to be pretty common and in fact I first heard about is 5-6 years ago on the CF, I just like to go fast and found the 550 hp just not enough.
    Carl, I think you misunderstood me. No where did I say headers will void your warranty. Just like with a CAI, you will not get the most gains from LT headers or a CAI without tuning. It is the tuning that WILL kill your power train warranty if you blow the motor. Your tuner may have had nothing to do with an engine blowing up. The engine could have had a design defect from the factory but you will never know if you tuned the ECM as GM will simply say "You modified the ECM, you no longer have a power train warranty." You and I have a mutual acquaintance that blew up his Z06 motor that was totally stock. If he had tuned it, GM would have told him to go pound sand. That is a case of a bad engine and had nothing to do with tuning. So it happens. It does not always mean you have a bad tuner if you have your engine blow. I will agree that a bad tuner can cause this though.

    You may be getting lucky with not throwing a CEL after a header install, but I have helped put headers on multiple cars and every one threw a code shortly after installation due to the O2 extensions and the rear Os's not getting hot enough. Most tuners simply tune out the rear O2 sensors to avoid the CEL. It may take a week or so after, but I have yet to see an LSx car with LT's not throw a CEL sometime after a LT header install without a tune.

    Yes,there a a few bad tuners in our area. It's usually shops putting up unbelievable numbers that are leaning the ECM's out too much and blowing the engine. That does not mean that every tuned engine that blows is due to a bad tune.

    And just an FYI, I don't think we use the same dealership. I do my own regular maintenance and I use a dealership over in Princeton that I have had had great experiences with when I need warranty work done. I won't even let the dealer do my maintenance even though it came with the car. I don't want the crap oil that GM uses in my engines and it is just too easy to change the oil in either of my LSx based cars. I have had some not so good experiences at the dealer you use. Yes, they have a great Corvette mechanic in Spence but the service writers in general are not very good in my opinion and one treated me like a child when I went in for a known issue several years ago. Also, while they do preform Cadillac maintenance, they don't have a V specialist and I want that when I need warranty work done on my V.

  7. #22
    hcvone is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: cts-v 2011 with headers and tuned by vette doctors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike02z View Post
    Carl, I think you misunderstood me. No where did I say headers will void your warranty. Just like with a CAI, you will not get the most gains from LT headers or a CAI without tuning. It is the tuning that WILL kill your power train warranty if you blow the motor. Your tuner may have had nothing to do with an engine blowing up. The engine could have had a design defect from the factory but you will never know if you tuned the ECM as GM will simply say "You modified the ECM, you no longer have a power train warranty." You and I have a mutual acquaintance that blew up his Z06 motor that was totally stock. If he had tuned it, GM would have told him to go pound sand. That is a case of a bad engine and had nothing to do with tuning. So it happens. It does not always mean you have a bad tuner if you have your engine blow. I will agree that a bad tuner can cause this though.

    You may be getting lucky with not throwing a CEL after a header install, but I have helped put headers on multiple cars and every one threw a code shortly after installation due to the O2 extensions and the rear Os's not getting hot enough. Most tuners simply tune out the rear O2 sensors to avoid the CEL. It may take a week or so after, but I have yet to see an LSx car with LT's not throw a CEL sometime after a LT header install without a tune.

    Yes,there a a few bad tuners in our area. It's usually shops putting up unbelievable numbers that are leaning the ECM's out too much and blowing the engine. That does not mean that every tuned engine that blows is due to a bad tune.

    And just an FYI, I don't think we use the same dealership. I do my own regular maintenance and I use a dealership over in Princeton that I have had had great experiences with when I need warranty work done. I won't even let the dealer do my maintenance even though it came with the car. I don't want the crap oil that GM uses in my engines and it is just too easy to change the oil in either of my LSx based cars. I have had some not so good experiences at the dealer you use. Yes, they have a great Corvette mechanic in Spence but the service writers in general are not very good in my opinion and one treated me like a child when I went in for a known issue several years ago. Also, while they do preform Cadillac maintenance, they don't have a V specialist and I want that when I need warranty work done on my V.
    I do not go thru the service writers, and agree with you that most at that dealership are not very good, and that is being kind, they do have a younger guy from the old Caddy dealership that went to "B" and then moved back when the dealership moved, he knows supercharged performance and is Caddy trained, not "V" trained, I have known him for 15 years, and I know it will cause a problem but if my ZR1 needs warranty work he will work on my car and does now at my home, but it's all about who you feel the most comfortable with working on your car, and with the power and speeds of these cars it's really about who you TRUST with your life, because it comes down to that. Never had a code issue with any of the 11 Escalade's or the Vette's, and I am the kind of idiot that has to change every exhaust on every car and truck, it's a sickness, but I am working that out.

  8. #23
    Felixcts-v is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: cts-v 2011 with headers and tuned by vette doctors

    After Dealer fixed my fuel pump 80 miles later my car broke down with no compression in cylinder 4.
    if anyone wanna reach me call me 347 514 4650 my name is Felix i would love some good advice on the phone.

  9. #24
    Mike02z's Avatar
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    Re: cts-v 2011 with headers and tuned by vette doctors

    Felix, What kind of help are you looking for? You will not get anything from GM. If Vette Doctor won't help then either someone on this board needs to help you build a new bottom end or you need to pay someone to do it. Any attempt to get GM to pay for this is going to cost you a lot of time and effort and in my opinion, is an effort in futility. GM has already flagged your car. Even swapping the ECM (not that I would ever condone that) would not help you. So what are you actually looking to this board to help you with? Whether it was the fuel pump or not, GM has voided your power train warranty due to the modifications to the ECM which certainly could have caused the issue with cylinder 4. Could have also been a defect or an issue when the pump was changed but you'll never know since the ECM was modified. If it had not been modified, GM would have replaced the short block and determined the cause of the failure.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvone View Post
    I do not go thru the service writers, and agree with you that most at that dealership are not very good, and that is being kind, they do have a younger guy from the old Caddy dealership that went to "B" and then moved back when the dealership moved, he knows supercharged performance and is Caddy trained, not "V" trained, I have known him for 15 years, and I know it will cause a problem but if my ZR1 needs warranty work he will work on my car and does now at my home, but it's all about who you feel the most comfortable with working on your car, and with the power and speeds of these cars it's really about who you TRUST with your life, because it comes down to that. Never had a code issue with any of the 11 Escalade's or the Vette's, and I am the kind of idiot that has to change every exhaust on every car and truck, it's a sickness, but I am working that out.
    I have a similar sickness. Have not changed the exhaust on the V as it was leased and I just bought it. I know it's just a matter of time

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