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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, '12 LSA making some power in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Yeah, we need some comparative testing. So GM High Tech needs to get a '12 Vagon, an '11 Vagon, and ...
  1. #16
    Xaqtly's Avatar
    Xaqtly is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    Yeah, we need some comparative testing. So GM High Tech needs to get a '12 Vagon, an '11 Vagon, and a ZL1 on on the same dyno on the same day, back to back, to see what's up.
    Club Malibu and Club Malibu like this.

  2. #17
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    Yes, that would help, but it looks like the '11 and '12 numbers seem to be consistently higher than older Vs.

  3. #18
    jessrayo is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    Quote Originally Posted by B T Williams View Post

    The April GM High Tech Magazine Dynojet 224X test of a 2012 CTS-V waggon reported rear wheel power output of 525 HP / 521 Lb Ft Tq, very high numbers for advertised crank power output of 556 HP / 551 Lb Ft Tq.

    Therefore, the high rear wheel power output reported by the April GM High Tech Magazine Dynojet 224X test for the 2012 CTS-V waggon does not, in and of themselves, provide sufficient evidence of an increase in power output for 2012 CTS-V LSA engines.
    The point that the shop owner made about this car being a "freak" was because he dynos every single car he modifies and saves the records for before and after results. If my memory is correct, ADM had a history of about 50 LSA motors all run on that dyno and none of them had been close to this one stock. My 2011 dynoed at 500 RWHP stock and he said it was very strong. The numbers he is using for comparison in that article are based on the averages run on the exact same dyno. Unless the dyno has somehow got out of calibration over the years and is now "optimistic" his analysis is legitimate. The newer cars are making more power.

    As far as I know the Nissan GT-R is the only car to change the power rating every year the car is produced. I just don't think Cadillac feels it has made enough changes to the engine package to justify giving out a different power number. I sometime wonder if anyone even knows for sure why some of the newer cars are stronger, maybe the tolerances are tighter in the blower, who knows....

  4. #19
    quikag is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    How many V's does Caddy sell each year? IF there was a change to the power output due to the tighter tolerances/sealing on the blower or whatever tweaks GM has made to the LSA that added some horsepower it may not be important enough for GM to SAE recertify the engine and pay the money that entails. That is my guess if the newer LSA's are a little stronger.

  5. #20
    baabootoo's Avatar
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    We can also use the real world dyno; 1/4 mile trap speeds. Like was said, too many variables on too many dynos. If STOCK 2012 Wagons can consistently get 120+ trap speed, then I'll listen.

  6. #21
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    Quote Originally Posted by CTS-V-TWIN View Post
    Yes, that would help, but it looks like the '11 and '12 numbers seem to be consistently higher than older Vs.
    my 2011's 422whp disagrees. As mentioned previously, there's simply not enough evidence to support any conclusions that 12s come juiced up.

    There are more changes than a blower revision to the ZL1, the intake and exhaust systems flow much more freely, those two parts alone likely cover most of the gains. I simply don't understand how people can attribuite a < 24hp change in a similar (but not identical) engine as proof that their own 12 MY vehicle is more powerful when there's clear data that 09-11 dynos flucuate 100HP between themselves ! Some intake companies claim higher gains that what we're talking about here and it's generally known that most of those are utter BS.

    Even a back-to back comparison on the same day/dyno isn't enough IMO. You need a 10+ unit sample size between the MY vehicles, and they all need to be in roughly the same condition mileage and mantiance wise. Anything less will skew results when we're talking about such small differences like this.

    as also mentioned, i can not fathom in light of the HP wars that GM would miss an opportunity to flaunt that their now 5 year old car still has a few tricks up their sleeve. Espically in light of the GT500 pimp-slapping the ZL1.

    How many V's does Caddy sell each year? IF there was a change to the power output due to the tighter tolerances/sealing on the blower or whatever tweaks GM has made to the LSA that added some horsepower it may not be important enough for GM to SAE recertify the engine and pay the money that entails. That is my guess if the newer LSA's are a little stronger.
    they sell more LSA's than BMW, Mercedes and Audi sell RS, M or C63 cars combined, and they do 95% of that in North America Alone. let me put it to you this way. How many Vagons has GM sold? 500? 800?

    In a recent Car and Driver comparison with the E63 wagon, they were quoted as complaining that they had to wait so long to do the comparison because there had been until that time, no E63 Wagons in N/A. The one they reviews was the first one imported.

  7. #22
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    There are more than just a handful of factory freaks out there. My 2011 V was WAY more powerful than my 2010 V and my 2009 V. At least 40 RWHP more on my V Coupe over my two V Sedans and all cars were tested on the same dyno and in the exact same conditions.

  8. #23
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    If the numbers are SAE certified, I'm starting to wonder how much of this variation is attributable to the computer pulling timing and making other adjustments for different conditions? I know the car will protect itself and the car backing power down due to higher IAT's or some other condition seems more plausible than having such a wide variation in power output between stock LSA engines that are all supposed to be an SAE rated 556hp.

    I have a healthy stock '10 ZR1 and I still think my '12 CTS-V pulls very hard, so even though I haven't dynoed (and may not dyno) the V, it seems sufficiently powered for my daily commute.

  9. #24
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    I have a stock 12 Wagon in the DFW area if anyone wants to offer a Dyno to compare numbers.

  10. #25
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    Quote Originally Posted by CTS-V-TWIN View Post
    How many miles were on the engine when you had it dyno tested? Was it on a Dynojet?
    10k on her when I dyno'd it and yes it was a dynojet

  11. #26
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    SAE or STD corrected? I forgot to ask this as well.

  12. #27
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    STD also there was a Coupe there that had 11k on the odo he put down 446 at the wheels.

  13. #28
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    Do you know what your SAE numbers are? STD numbers show much higher than SAE numbers. SAE numbers would show a real indication of what your car is putting down in numbers that are better understood by all of us. SAE corrected, my 2011 A6 V Coupe put down almost 461 RWHP and 462 RWTQ. STD would show much higher numbers. Go by SAE corrected numbers, NOT STD numbers.

    Here is my dyno sheet showing my bone stock numbers with 400 miles on the engine in SAE correction:


  14. #29
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    Re: '12 LSA making some power

    Quote Originally Posted by quikag View Post
    some other condition seems more plausible than having such a wide variation in power output between stock LSA engines that are all supposed to be an SAE rated 556hp.
    That's a very interesting point actually. What I mean by that is that we're having all this discussion about standardizing and normalizing the test conditions to get accurate comparisons. But the fact that we have such wide variations might mean that in the real world that's what we get - in some conditions we get way LESS power, in some we get MORE. In many respects, I don't care what power my engine puts out under a specified lab test if I will never see those conditions in driving where I live. In Houston we have 100-120 days per year where the high temp is well over 100 degrees. Due to computer decisions, am I going to lose 100hp because I live in a hot climate? Are other engines putting out MORE power in real driving because they can better handle the environmental variations?

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