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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Audi S6 in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by CTS NV Audi's lying. Positively. I guess I have to do the math, but in the end ...
  1. #31
    TriTexan is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Audi S6

    Quote Originally Posted by CTS NV View Post
    Audi's lying.
    Positively. I guess I have to do the math, but in the end we'll crunch the numbers. 0-60 times, even with unlimited traction, ultimately come down to the output of the engine over the rpm range. At 60 mph, a 4255 lb car has a known amount of kinetic energy. To impart that much kinetic energy to the car in 3.7 seconds requires a specific amount of force to be delivered over that 3.7 second interval. No amount of technology or traction can overcome the basic laws of physics. We should easily be able to calculate the theoretical HP and torque needed. Then we can PROVE that Audi is lying about the specs of the car and we'll have an exact number that is the MINIMUM output of that engine.

    Anyone feel like cranking out the numbers? Here's a start:

    Mass = 1930kg
    1/4 mile = 1320 ft = 402.336 m
    1/4 trap speed = 115mph = 51.4096 m/s

    My rough math says that's about 272,658 Joules/sec, or about 365 horsepower at the rear (er, all four) wheels. That's the theoretical MIN needed to perform this feat, and that doesn't account for aero drag, rolling resistance, power needed to accelerate rotating masses like the wheels and such, or any other losses.

    Someone check my math, but if we factor in 15% loss in the drivetrain, that's a MINIMUM of 430hp at the crank. Probably more like 460-470 once you factor in all the other losses I haven't calculated. Don't forget - that's an AVERAGE of 460hp...the engine's peak will probably be higher than the average. So this engine is probably peaking out around 500hp - that would make it appear someone is really dialing up the boost off those turbos.

    Now I'm just throwing all this down off the top of my head, but the data doesn't pass the smell test at first blush. Can someone out there do a better job than me at properly calculating the minimum required RWHP (dangit - WHP) just based on the pure physics?

    ----------

    Hot Rod magazine published this formula for backing into HP based on 1/4 mile times...

    HP = [(MPH/234)^3 * Weight

    So, 115mph/234^3 * 4255 lbs = ~505hp.

    Between my math and a completely different route from Hot Rod magazine, we're getting similar results...this Audi needs 470-500hp to pull off this quarter mile time. And if you do the math, it needs even MORE to do 0-60 in 3.7 seconds.

  2. #32
    M5eater's Avatar
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    Re: Audi S6

    Quote Originally Posted by CTS NV View Post
    That 12.1 quarter mile says there's a lot more power under the hood.

    Audi's N/A 4.2 v8 is rated 372 HP in the Audi A8. http://models.audiusa.com/a8/engines

    How could twin turbochargers only bump output to 420 HP? There's no chance that number is right -- Audi's lying.
    possible, unlikely, but possible.

    They only made 50 more HP with 2 turbos in the APB(2.7L V6) and that was based off the 200hp 2.8L.

  3. #33
    TTuned is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Audi S6

    about TIME! the V10 s6 was such a disappointment.

    Good to see they are back to Turbos and better times! Now just add fat fenders so it will look different on the road than the base since we don't normally get RS versions.
    M5eater and M5eater like this.

  4. #34
    Moneypenny is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Audi S6

    Additional info: looks like Audi does indeed use a launch control on the S6. C/D claims their 3.7sec 0-60 was achieved with this feature. Their rolling start (5-60, no launch control) was 4.9 seconds.

  5. #35
    M5eater's Avatar
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    Re: Audi S6

    Quote Originally Posted by TTuned View Post
    about TIME! the V10 s6 was such a disappointment.

    Good to see they are back to Turbos and better times! Now just add fat fenders so it will look different on the road than the base since we don't normally get RS versions.
    It's not like the good old days of $500 chips for an extra 80hp though. B8 people pay in excess of $1,000 for pre-made tunes because they're so loaded with subsystem computer crap these days.

  6. #36
    DrVolkl is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Audi S6

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    It's not like the good old days of $500 chips for an extra 80hp though. B8 people pay in excess of $1,000 for pre-made tunes because they're so loaded with subsystem computer crap these days.
    I had a chipped B8 S4... it was no joke.. and yes, the flash was $1500 if I recall and I had to send my ecu to APR.

    There's a chipped B8 doing high 11's in the 1/4. I bet money the S6 is underrated.

  7. #37
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
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    Re: Audi S6

    Quote Originally Posted by Moneypenny View Post
    Additional info: looks like Audi does indeed use a launch control on the S6. C/D claims their 3.7sec 0-60 was achieved with this feature. Their rolling start (5-60, no launch control) was 4.9 seconds.
    You're exactly right... Good catch.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrVolkl View Post
    I had a chipped B8 S4... it was no joke.. and yes, the flash was $1500 if I recall and I had to send my ecu to APR.

    There's a chipped B8 doing high 11's in the 1/4. I bet money the S6 is underrated.
    ...and APR has one of the least agressive tunes...

    Otherwise... There's PROBABLY going to be an RS6 as well.. I'm guessing that'll be a very impressive car. Keep in mind the Mercedes-Benz CLS550 does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. I believe the E550 is even a bit quicker. These aren't AMGs or Ms... Regular cars are getting pretty fast...

    There are a couple of conversations in the lounge about this stuff:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...-0-60-4-a.html

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...-0-60-3-a.html
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  8. #38
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    Re: Audi S6

    Regular cars are getting pretty fast...
    well, I think we keep forgetting that all of these cars are the mid-tier versions of real sports sedans, that they typically cost beyond what a fully-loaded V2 does, that these cars are on brand new platforms and that the V2 , when it goes on sale for the 2013 Model year will be in it's 5th year run. It's old.

    If I were spending $70K+ on a true german sports sedan, I'd wouldn't exactly expect to be left in the dust by some guy in a SHO. I mean, there is No smaller version of the CLS, it's the 550 or the CLS63 AMG, that's it, and we're talking about a Car that has a $50 option for a 2GB SD card.. so you're NOT going to be paying the base MSRP for one.

  9. #39
    smackdownCTSV's Avatar
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    Re: Audi S6

    Quite a markup, those are only $5 now.

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