Time for a CTSV - Page 4
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 61
Like Tree2Likes
2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Time for a CTSV in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by e6t i have a similar background to OP. i bought the CTSV because i wanted a manual ...
  1. #46
    Blk N Blwn is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTSV Coupe
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    21

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    Quote Originally Posted by e6t View Post
    i have a similar background to OP.

    i bought the CTSV because i wanted a manual and a ton of power. it was the biggest piece of shit i have ever owned and i've owned some raging pieces of shit. im talking Saabs and Land Rovers...

    My car was repurchased by GM and I went back to BMW. The only thing I miss is the crazy, seductive, addictive power... to the point of considering trying again... then I wake up. I will drive an f10 m5 and either go with that, a Dinan 550 xdrive or possibly an cls 63 or e63... im also considering a panamera s.

    My only experience with these cars is what I read on here as well as the V I owned as well as the 2010 V my partner owns (that sucked me in in the first place) which is also an enormous piece of shit.

    the car is so close to being great, but so close can also be so far.

    I'd hate to see a fella get into a leased V with the hopes of it comparing to porsches, audis and bmws only to be TERRIBLY dissappointed. Cranking sideways on the highway at 70mph can only cast a shadow on awful build quality so often...
    I had a 2000 BMW M5 and that was the worst vehicle I ever owned. I put 12,000 miles on the car in 3 years and it was in the dealer 16 times for engine lights and numerous other problems. Because of that experience and the terrible attitude by the BMW zone rep that is the last BMW I will ever own. Too bad because the car was awesome when it ran. Guess they all have problems.

  2. #47
    junker87 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTS-V Wagon 6 speed
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    PRK
    Posts
    51

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    Quote Originally Posted by Blk N Blwn View Post
    I had a 2000 BMW M5 and that was the worst vehicle I ever owned. I put 12,000 miles on the car in 3 years and it was in the dealer 16 times for engine lights and numerous other problems. Because of that experience and the terrible attitude by the BMW zone rep that is the last BMW I will ever own. Too bad because the car was awesome when it ran. Guess they all have problems.
    I have owned enough BMW to know to NEVER buy the first MY.

    2000 M5's have non existent resale because they were plagued with all kinds of issues, electrical and engine wise.

    All that and more were addressed by the time 2001 MY came around.

    This happens to all brands, Ferrari included, cue the self igniting 458's.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    The V1 is a better performance car than the E39 M5.
    So what? The Z06 is a better performance car than a GT3 if all you can about is setting the fastest time.

    But unless you are a brand loyalist, 5 minutes in each cars is all it takes for anyone to understand why the GT3 is a better overall car. And why the GT3 is the car that sets the bar while the Z06 tries to play catch up. As much as the domestic fans like to try to pretent that things like build quality and quality of materials do not matter, they do. And Cadillac agrees with me, which is why you see such a drastic improvement in the overall quality of V2 over V1.

    Same with the iconic E39 M5. The V1 worksmanship and material is utterly laughable if you have spent any time in each.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by buddyg View Post
    To each their own that's what makes the world go round but I would never do what you are doing. I wouldn't take a brand new BMW M5 over my V.
    Have you owned any German cars? What are you basing your decision of never taking a brand new M5, which would be the F10 M5, over your V on?

    The V1 cut a lot of corners in material and worksmanship because Lutz wanted a performance sedan that can beat the M5 in terms of numbers.

    Lutz got that done. Big performance with cheap price tag, nicely done.

    Just 6 years later, V2 now has a price tag of 72K! So, one should reasonably be able to expect decent overall quality, and yet, its material used still can't compare to that of the E39 M5, which started production in 2000 for the U.S., let along the E60, and now the F10 M5.

    Try as you might, the 70 to 100K German sedan buyers are what Cadillac is targeting with the obsidian black trim, the recaro seats, the sueded steering wheels, gobs of power, and the much nicer paint job. To succeed, Cadillac needs to reign in their accountants if they want a 100% no excuse car that can compete squarely with the Germans.

    I shouldn't see Chevy truck headliner in a 72K car.

    But that's not even the reason why the Vagon is coming up for a lease swap, I obviously have decided that I could live with the interior shortcomings, or I wouldn't have ordered a Vagon. It is simply that we are just not used to the big and heavy modern sedan with big power. We would have been equally unhappy with the E60 M5, and probably vomit a little each time we see the bangled rear end.

  3. #48
    Blk N Blwn is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTSV Coupe
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    21

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    Quote Originally Posted by junker87 View Post
    I have owned enough BMW to know to NEVER buy the first MY.

    2000 M5's have non existent resale because they were plagued with all kinds of issues, electrical and engine wise.

    All that and more were addressed by the time 2001 MY came around.

    This happens to all brands, Ferrari included, cue the self igniting 458's.[COLOR="Silver"]
    I hear ya. I also owned a 2000 BMW 540i 6 speed car which frankly was a better car reliability wise. But for the exact reason you state (first year model of a new platform) BMW should have stepped up to the plate and did everything possible to make the car right. They didn't so I am done with them. I am sure they could really care less but at the end of the day I bought a new Cadillac V instead of a new M3 or M5. GM's gain BMW's loss.

  4. #49
    Pphilthy's Avatar
    Pphilthy is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Age
    41
    Posts
    185
    Having own my fair share of German and domestic car, and being an overall car guy - I went to test drive the new M5 before I bought the CTS-V and overall power wise, they are very similar, exterior wise I like the CTS-V and interior wise the edge goes to the BMW, but not by as far as some of the BMW fan boys would like... What turned me off completely about the new M5 is the steering feel, horrible! What a huge let down and I've own three M cars in the past so I have a pretty good reference point. The CTS-V steering feel currently sets the standard and overall fun to dive was hands down the CTS-V.

    I have no doubt that once non-biased people start comparing the two, my above comments will be very close to dead on... BMW just missed the mark with their new electric power steering, by a country mile. Now the kicker was, does the M5 offer 50k more value, lol - no way... With 4k in mods into the CTS-V, the M5 has no chance...

  5. #50
    Teutonaddict is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 13 6MN Vagon OBM
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central TX
    Posts
    283

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    I understand completely the love for the E39 M5--I was a BMW guy for 17 years before coming to the darkside. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones, as both my E39 M5 and my V2 were first-model-year versions and both were relatively trouble-free (come to think of it, also had 95 E34 and 98 E39 540i/6's that were flawless first-year models, too. Hmmmmm, better go buy a Lotto ticket!).

    I picked the M5 up from the Spartanburg Performance Delivery Center in April 2000 and rode that baby for six years. Still regret letting her go with 85K miles... However, I does love me some V2!! Zero problems, so I plan to learn from my M5 lesson and never let this one go; I'm gonna run her into the ground or until the wheels fall off, whichever comes first.

    Yeah, the alcantara headliner is nice, but the trunk mat you mention was optional. And 72K in 2000 equals a $96K sticker today, so it ain't quite apples-to-apples. In the end, ain't it great to have choices? Sorry you're tired of your Vagon. Hope that other E39M5 guy makes you an offer...

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by junker87
    We would have been equally unhappy with the E60 M5, and probably vomit a little each time we see the bangled rear end.
    I'm with you there! I had a deposit down on the E60 M5 years before while it was still sight-unseen. The aesthetics (both exterior AND interior) were a deal-breaker for me, plus all the little things that used to make an M-car started to fade: driver-oriented cockpit, manual tranny (at least on introduction). Thankfully, my dealership gave me my deposit back after I decided to go a different route. FWIW, the F10 M5 looks like a proper, non-Bangle-ized performance sedan. I'm just happy where I'm at!

  6. #51
    Crystal Red CTS-V is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTS-V CRM Coupe (Airaid Intake & Corsa), 2011 Z06/Z07
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Beech Mountain, NC
    Posts
    248

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    The maintenance problems with my wife's '06 Mini Cooper S (built by BMW) were the reasons I traded it in for our CTS-V! The BMW dealership personnel and the facilities were leaps and bounds ahead of any US brand's showroom and people, but I just couldn't take the ongoing coolant leaks, water pump failures, etc. and having to drive 100 miles to the original (and nearest) Mini/BMW dealer for service. I do miss the outstanding service and people at the BMW dealership.

  7. #52
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): ZIP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the barrel of a gun...
    Posts
    49,400
    I've driven an M5. I didn't think it was vastly superior to the V1 in build quality. And I thought the V had much better ergonomics.

    And the V2s interior layout is much better than any current BMW...

  8. #53
    junker87 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTS-V Wagon 6 speed
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    PRK
    Posts
    51

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    I've driven an M5. I didn't think it was vastly superior to the V1 in build quality. And I thought the V had much better ergonomics.
    I am sorry, but this staement is just absurd.

    The fine grain heritage nappa leather wrapped desh on the E39 M5's, made from 2000 to 2003, is VASTLY, VASTLY superior to even the low quality bumpy huge grain and cheap almost faux leather covering the V2 dash. That is not up for debate unless you have vision and tactile issues.

    How about the cheap material used for the door panel in the V1? Or that awfully cheap steering wheel in the V1? The knobs and the buttons on the V1 are made of this incredibly cheap plastic compared to the E39 M5. Unless you were driving it in your imagination, anyone who has actually done so would objectively agree.

    I did drive quite a few V1's when they came out, because I was curious to see how Lutz's effort had turned out. He got an A on performance, and D on build and material. Which was fine for V1, because the price tag was low.

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    And the V2s interior layout is much better than any current BMW...
    And the V2? The layout is pretty good, but again, the fact that the buttons wobble from side to side on the center console is pathetic for a car with an MSRP of 72K. Don't believe me? Go press on the left or right edge of the DEST button, or ANY button around it. Now, go find a well taken care of E39 M5 (between 9 and 12 years old), press the DSC, temperature, fan speed, heated seats control, etc buttons. Solid, no wobbling.

    In the league of 70 to 100K cars, things like these matter to buyers who are accustomed to a certain level of worksmanship and material.

    Again, I will point out that I have obviously decided that I could live with the shortcomings, which is why I got a Vagon. But facts are facts.

    Put it simply, if you can make the build and material issues go away by making the MSRP 76K instead of 72K, THEN MAKE THE MSRP 76K!

    I am really not understanding why you always get domestic folks who refuse to acknowledge the fact GM's gap on build and material quality. People like me who are getting into the world of GM for the first time are doing so because we see the huge improvement that GM has made from V1 to V2, and we are the reason why that improvements were made. It certainly weren't made for people who thought that the chevy truck headliner and the cheap leather dash were A OK on a car with a 72K price tag.

    And as for the "I would rather GM keep the prices low" argument. First of all, 72K and low price do't belong in the same sentence in ANYBODY's world. And second, if a couple grand more in price which would make these material quality issues go away would prevent someone from getting a V2, then they really should examine their financial priorities.

  9. #54
    Houdini's Avatar
    Houdini is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2010 CTS-V 6MT, 2007 CTS-V (Sold)
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    St. Louis Metro
    Posts
    1,346

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    Thanks for the heads up... I just realized my buttons do wobble a bit. I'm taking this POS back!

  10. #55
    JFJr's Avatar
    JFJr is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS-V (TR-6060, Black Raven/Ebony, Recaros, Ultraview)
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Age
    70
    Posts
    1,422
    Quote Originally Posted by Houdini View Post
    Thanks for the heads up... I just realized my buttons do wobble a bit. I'm taking this POS back!
    Ha haa! And GM uses cheap tires, too, because every time you floor it, some of the tread comes off on the pavement. WTF! Oh, I forgot to add that my gas tank must leak because I have to visit the gas station every week. If I had bought a German car I wouldn't have these problems.

    Jud
    Jud

  11. #56
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): ZIP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the barrel of a gun...
    Posts
    49,400
    Quote Originally Posted by junker87

    I am sorry, but this staement is just absurd.

    The fine grain heritage nappa leather wrapped desh on the E39 M5's, made from 2000 to 2003, is VASTLY, VASTLY superior to even the low quality bumpy huge grain and cheap almost faux leather covering the V2 dash. That is not up for debate unless you have vision and tactile issues.

    How about the cheap material used for the door panel in the V1? Or that awfully cheap steering wheel in the V1? The knobs and the buttons on the V1 are made of this incredibly cheap plastic compared to the E39 M5. Unless you were driving it in your imagination, anyone who has actually done so would objectively agree.

    I did drive quite a few V1's when they came out, because I was curious to see how Lutz's effort had turned out. He got an A on performance, and D on build and material. Which was fine for V1, because the price tag was low.

    And the V2? The layout is pretty good, but again, the fact that the buttons wobble from side to side on the center console is pathetic for a car with an MSRP of 72K. Don't believe me? Go press on the left or right edge of the DEST button, or ANY button around it. Now, go find a well taken care of E39 M5 (between 9 and 12 years old), press the DSC, temperature, fan speed, heated seats control, etc buttons. Solid, no wobbling.

    In the league of 70 to 100K cars, things like these matter to buyers who are accustomed to a certain level of worksmanship and material.

    Again, I will point out that I have obviously decided that I could live with the shortcomings, which is why I got a Vagon. But facts are facts.

    Put it simply, if you can make the build and material issues go away by making the MSRP 76K instead of 72K, THEN MAKE THE MSRP 76K!

    I am really not understanding why you always get domestic folks who refuse to acknowledge the fact GM's gap on build and material quality. People like me who are getting into the world of GM for the first time are doing so because we see the huge improvement that GM has made from V1 to V2, and we are the reason why that improvements were made. It certainly weren't made for people who thought that the chevy truck headliner and the cheap leather dash were A OK on a car with a 72K price tag.

    And as for the "I would rather GM keep the prices low" argument. First of all, 72K and low price do't belong in the same sentence in ANYBODY's world. And second, if a couple grand more in price which would make these material quality issues go away would prevent someone from getting a V2, then they really should examine their financial priorities.
    Hey, Mr. Blowhard, instead of getting all hysterical, read sometime. You mentioned build quality. I then said the build quality and ergonomics were excellent. Figure out what that actually means.

    Build quality means how well it is screwed together. Ergonomics is how well things work around you in th cockpit.

    YOU go on a diatribe of your velvet roofs and buttons.

    The materials may be cheaper, but that has no relation to if its put together well or where the controls are.

    And, again, the V2 LAYOUT is better.


    Hooray for you stroking your roof and playing with your buttons.



    And I love BMWs, but I at least think objectively...

  12. #57
    Teutonaddict is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 13 6MN Vagon OBM
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central TX
    Posts
    283

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    Quote Originally Posted by junker87 View Post
    The fine grain heritage nappa leather wrapped desh on the E39 M5's, made from 2000 to 2003, is VASTLY, VASTLY superior to even the low quality bumpy huge grain and cheap almost faux leather covering the V2 dash. That is not up for debate unless you have vision and tactile issues.
    Well, sport, I hate to question your vision and tactile capability, but facts is facts. The ONLY year that E39 M5s had real leather dash and door tops was MY2000. After that, they were ALL faux leather--or "synthetic material" per the official BMW Product Planning bulletin. I know, because I had to jump through hoops when I ordered my '00 E39 M5 from the factory--I knew more than my usually-on-the-ball salesman.

    While you CAN debate the relative quality of said synthetic materials (and I think that's your real point, but I got lost in the tirade), what you cannot objectively debate is that your beloved '03 M5 dash didn't come from no cow. No how.

    LUXURY Interior
    All Leather Nappa Heritage
    dashboard and upper door trim covered in synthetic material
    leather on seats is ultrasmooth, seats incorporate vertical stitching
    Standard Bruyere Club Wood trim
    no/charge Burl Walnut Wood trip
    Standard Alcantara Anthracite headliner
    Not Available Electric rear sunshade, side manual shades

    See Product Planning and Strategy Bulletin from BMWNA for Model Year 2001 M5 below.
    Attached Images

  13. #58
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): ZIP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the barrel of a gun...
    Posts
    49,400

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    In Uranus.

  14. #59
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Age
    39
    Posts
    37,475

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    Why do guys continue to feed the trolls?

  15. #60
    junker87 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTS-V Wagon 6 speed
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    PRK
    Posts
    51

    Re: Time for a CTSV

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    Why do guys continue to feed the trolls?
    Really? Should I take a picture of my window sticker? Or maybe the monthly statement from Ally?

    So if you have a V but you believe that there are rooms for improvement, you are now a troll?

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    Hey, Mr. Blowhard, instead of getting all hysterical, read sometime. You mentioned build quality. I then said the build quality and ergonomics were excellent. Figure out what that actually means.

    Build quality means how well it is screwed together. Ergonomics is how well things work around you in th cockpit.

    YOU go on a diatribe of your velvet roofs and buttons.

    The materials may be cheaper, but that has no relation to if its put together well or where the controls are.

    And, again, the V2 LAYOUT is better.

    Hooray for you stroking your roof and playing with your buttons.

    And I love BMWs, but I at least think objectively...
    What you don't realize is that for someone like me who has had BMW, Audi, and 911's with the GT1 blocks, I look at cars like cars. Just because I won't buy a first year F10 M5 doesn't mean BMW sucks. Same here, just because I am saying that the interior of the Vagon is still not up to par when it was clear that it could have been doesn't mean the Vagon sucks. Or does any criticism of the V = V sucks?

    You are correct that I sort of lumped build quality and materials together. So to clarify.

    Build quality, when I look at the LARGE joints between the plastic coverings at the bottom of the door frame on my wagon, it is clear that the build quality here IS affected by the material used. They are related to one another. A worker can only do so much to make cheap parts fit right.

    And the material IS cheaper, and it has bearings on how well things CAN be put together. Look at the seam of the headliner where it meets the top of the windshield. That is going to delaminate after a few years under the sun. BMW learned about this in their E36's, and went to solid one piece headliners because of it. The E36 ended production before year 2000.

    Ergonomics, well, the NAV has really nice interface, much better than Porsche, Audi, and BMW. Except we don't bother using it because most of the time when we take the wagon it's the whole family, and while the wagon is moving my wife cannot input an address while I am driving, because GM's over zealous product liability lawyer has decided that this will not be possible. So what's the point of having NAV if you have to pull over to type in an address even if you have a passenger that clearly can enter the address?

    Ergonomics, ok, the steering wheel controls. Who thought it was a good idea to put preset up down and volume up down right next to each other?

    Ergonomics. There's the parking brake. Your foot must be hard on the brakes And the car stopped for you to engage it.


    And really? "stroking your roof and playing with your buttons?" It's still just a car last I checked, some of you react like I just kicked your dog.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting