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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; [quote=Jpjr;1648674] Originally Posted by jasaero I don't think it's 50/50. I am betting the new CTS could sell better than ...
  1. #31
    jasaero is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    [quote=Jpjr;1648674]
    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    I don't think it's 50/50. I am betting the new CTS could sell better than most 5 series competitors TODAY if it had the same pricing and options available.

    I would say reputation is more 40% and it isn't even reputation so much as image. QUOTE]

    I think we are speaking the same language... whether you call it luxuary or image... it's the intangible part. I would simply argue that the intangible part needs to be less for Caddy than it does Merc, BMW, or Lexus.

    As far as outselling, I think you will be proven right but again the price gets most of the credit. The CTS has been heavily discounted relative to the others I would assume based upon recent promotions.
    If you watch the base price of the CTS though it started at about $30k originally and it upto $36k+ now. I think it will base around $40k by the time the small Caddy hits the market. As all these increases happened it's sales actually picked up so it has partially been to regulate demand also probably. Rather than annoy people with how long it takes to get them their car they just slowly increase the price. I think they already have Lexus basically handled on image anyhow. Lexus seems to only attract people based on quality and reliability while making good quiet cruisers rather than being an image car. Basically people buy Lexus more for tangible reasons rather than the intangible. The tangible is good with BMW and MB, but I think they are bought mostly on the intangible.

    My point really though was that segment wide most cars in this class are bought for tangible reason of that particular buyer. Cadillac is getting really close to shoring up every last tangible reason with the CTS and even creating some strong intangibles in the process.

  2. #32
    Cadillac Tony's Avatar
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    jasaero has made some very good points here. The CTS has always been a 5 series at a 3 series price, and now that it is gaining a reputation for great style, power and quality (as evidenced by the universally great reviews) Cadillac is slowly moving it toward 5 series prices.

    Expect a smaller car to slot in below it at the old CTS price of $30k to compete directly with the 3, both in price AND size, within the next few years.
    Tony Pagano
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  3. #33
    GNSCOTT is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    GM just raised the price of all Corvettes by $1500 because of material costs. If they do start it under $60k I can tell you it will be a publicity thing and it will quickly rise and be $63k by the end of the first model year.

  4. #34
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    Quote Originally Posted by lawfive View Post
    How about guys who like a smooth, quiet, luxurious, roomy ride from point A to point B, and haven't been on a roller coaster for 20 years?
    Front wheel drive DTS. Its nice but its a pig. Just returned a loaner.

  5. #35
    Jpjr is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    Quote Originally Posted by GNSCOTT View Post
    GM just raised the price of all Corvettes by $1500 because of material costs. If they do start it under $60k I can tell you it will be a publicity thing and it will quickly rise and be $63k by the end of the first model year.
    They can raise the price, only to discount it later. This is the toughest auto market in 20 years, the consumer has all of the pricing power. Sales down 20%... many analysts saying 1 in 5 auto dealers will need to close if things do not pick up in 2009.

    Looks like GM will offer 0% financing for 36 months on 2008 CTS in October... and up to 72 months 0% for Escalade and other big SUV's. Hope these get extended to 2009 like the employee discounts did.

  6. #36
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    I don't think it's as tough as after Sept.11th, but that's just at my particular Dealership. This last two months has been difficult due to all the doom and gloom on the news, but after the rollercoaster stock market stabilizes, things should smooth out.

    Also, don't forget that the downside to huge discounts on the new cars is horrendous resale value down the road- it's a double-edged sword (sort of a "pay me now or pay me later" deal). People complain when there's not huge discounts on the new cars, but then when they give them, the same people complain about their resale value at trade time- you can't have both. GM has been trying to get away from the rebates for years, and is still moving in that direction. They're doing what they need to do to clear out old inventory, but the programs don't last long.

    Many of the Automakers are starting to focus on profitability and controlling costs instead of just dumping more and more cars into the marketplace. Toyota's sales were down almost twice as much as GM's compared to last year, so the slowdown is not limited to the American automakers. It's an industry wide problem, partially because of an oversaturated market.
    Tony Pagano
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  7. #37
    Jpjr is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    I agree with the premise of your last post over the long term, but I would say GM has one priority right now and that is cash flow. Toyota can be more margin focused because they have a much stronger balance sheet. GM should accept cash (sales) in lieu of profit in the near term because liquidity is the key to survival. Their share of the $25 billion should help them get back on the profit track.

  8. #38
    NormV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    Chrysler just increased prices $500 and Toyota is offer similar 0% for 36 to 60 months. Expect prices to rise at GM also as they will discount in niche markets. Gas prices in Ohio are just over $3.20's per gallon. Great time to be a consumer. Just need the insurance industry to follow suit!


    Norm

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    They can raise the price, only to discount it later. This is the toughest auto market in 20 years, the consumer has all of the pricing power. Sales down 20%... many analysts saying 1 in 5 auto dealers will need to close if things do not pick up in 2009.

    Looks like GM will offer 0% financing for 36 months on 2008 CTS in October... and up to 72 months 0% for Escalade and other big SUV's. Hope these get extended to 2009 like the employee discounts did.

  9. #39
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    For the record, any V6 CTS offerred at $60k is **EXACTLY** the type of over-pricing that some of us fear. What objective person under 60 would buy a V6 CTS over an M3 for $60k?
    Quote Originally Posted by lawfive View Post
    How about guys who like a smooth, quiet, luxurious, roomy ride from point A to point B, and haven't been on a roller coaster for 20 years?
    Quote Originally Posted by V-Love View Post
    Front wheel drive DTS. Its nice but its a pig. Just returned a loaner.
    Ah... I thought we were talking about guys who aren't dead yet.

  10. #40
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    Chrysler just increased prices $500 and Toyota is offer similar 0% for 36 to 60 months. Expect prices to rise at GM also as they will discount in niche markets. Gas prices in Ohio are just over $3.20's per gallon. Great time to be a consumer. Just need the insurance industry to follow suit!


    Norm

    I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me or not. The auto market is the worst it has been since the early 1990's, and will get worse yet. They can raise sticker price, but the price that cars are sold will go down. Economic law daniel son, not miyagi's

  11. #41
    NormV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    I would not associate sales levels with profits from 20 years ago. . With the output per person today if they are breaking even they are making money. Besides GM just extinguished 3.5 m when the 25b for facilties 20 years or older was pased in order for them to meet emissions standards. You'll continue to see prices increases through 2010.

    Listen to Palin and her partner that the fundamentals are strong if we're smart enough to live within our means.



    Norm

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with me or not. The auto market is the worst it has been since the early 1990's, and will get worse yet. They can raise sticker price, but the price that cars are sold will go down. Economic law daniel son, not miyagi's

  12. #42
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    GM just went through two months of the most severe discounting process ever. Who cares what sticker is, all that matters is clearing levels. If they don't sell the cars at clearing levels, they sit on the lots but that doesn't make them more valuable. The market decides the price and profit at GM, GM just provides the suggestion.

  13. #43
    NormV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    And GM gained almost 1/3 of the market last month in doing so. This gives major control in pricing increases which assist in decreasing those big incentives.


    There was around $1500 off on the 05 or 06 V and depending on how they price it might see similar. But maybe not as it is a unique car in it's price range.

    Norm


    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    GM just went through two months of the most severe discounting process ever. Who cares what sticker is, all that matters is clearing levels. If they don't sell the cars at clearing levels, they sit on the lots but that doesn't make them more valuable. The market decides the price and profit at GM, GM just provides the suggestion.

  14. #44
    Jpjr is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    And GM gained almost 1/3 of the market last month in doing so. This gives major control in pricing increases which assist in decreasing those big incentives.


    There was around $1500 off on the 05 or 06 V and depending on how they price it might see similar. But maybe not as it is a unique car in it's price range.

    Norm
    I agree with this from the perspective that the absolute best thing an automaker can do is sell someone a good vehicle. The odds of them returning or recommending that automaker skyrocket. GM grabbing share by pricing cars to market will help spread the word that their product is once again competitive. This will result in more customer loyalty and higher margins over time.

  15. #45
    NormV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: MSRP $59,025 ? That's what the Cadillac site suggests

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    I agree with this from the perspective that the absolute best thing an automaker can do is sell someone a good vehicle. The odds of them returning or recommending that automaker skyrocket. GM grabbing share by pricing cars to market will help spread the word that their product is once again competitive. This will result in more customer loyalty and higher margins over time.
    The right product for the right price has always been GM philosophy. Toyota/Lexus, even with their strong financial availability and perceived quality product, could not force a quality car down people's throat last quarter and dropped almost half of their month-to-month sales on the coasts. Toyota took it on the chin and now has offered 0% financing. So don't think the selling point is the best quality car will always win.

    Someone wants a lux domestic in the CTS class the tarted up Milan/MXZ/Zephur/Fusion/Five Hundred platform sharing is not going to cut it aside that it is FWD. Forget about Ford offering a performance sedan that will play with the big boys. Cadillac definitely has this niche and will command the price as this class is less price sensitive.

    Norm

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