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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by NormV ...Watch the video and guess which heavy car went off in T-10 before oak tree?! D'oh! ...
  1. #16
    HPCC is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    ...Watch the video and guess which heavy car went off in T-10 before oak tree?! D'oh! 4300 lbs baby! T10 is a tricky, off camber, turn with a mix a speed I do know one Porsche GT that wrecked there during a club event...
    Now was that the car's fault or did the driver just run out of talent?

  2. #17
    NormV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    Quote Originally Posted by HPCC View Post
    Now was that the car's fault or did the driver just run out of talent?
    If you've spent any time turning the wheel at high speed you'll know that nothing over comes physics. The heaviest cars in it's class. Also one of biggest.

    Norm

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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    If you've spent any time turning the wheel at high speed you'll know that nothing over comes physics...
    Oh yes, I've learned a few practical physics lessons the hard way--on two wheels. But the times I went off while pushing hard had nothing to do with the bike and everything to do with me.

  4. #19
    The Tony Show's Avatar
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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    If you've spent any time turning the wheel at high speed you'll know that nothing over comes physics. The heaviest cars in it's class. Also one of biggest.

    Norm
    .....and a situation that 99% of CTS-V owners will never duplicate on the street. Even among die hard forum posters only about 10% actually take their cars out on the track on a regular basis, so figure that equals somewhere around 1% of the general buying public.

    Joe Q. Public won't be taking turn 10 at VIR- he'll be doing 0-60 in 4.0 from stoplight to stoplight until he gets a ticket, and that weight won't be bothering him a bit as he annihilates most everything he goes up against.
    Rest in Peace, J.D. (aka Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)

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    NormV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    Don't have to be a race car driver to discover a car's limits. In the hands of professionals at this magazine even the extra mass can catch them off guard. Imagine what happens in a emergency manuever or lane change the weight really shows.

    Norm

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tony Show View Post
    .....and a situation that 99% of CTS-V owners will never duplicate on the street. Even among die hard forum posters only about 10% actually take their cars out on the track on a regular basis, so figure that equals somewhere around 1% of the general buying public.

    Joe Q. Public won't be taking turn 10 at VIR- he'll be doing 0-60 in 4.0 from stoplight to stoplight until he gets a ticket, and that weight won't be bothering him a bit as he annihilates most everything he goes up against.

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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    I see your point, but the public won't have the Stabilitrak disabled like the magazine testers do. If the car gets sideways on public roads, the Stabilitrak will catch it and save the driver's bacon- I know, because it's happened to me a few times.
    Rest in Peace, J.D. (aka Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)

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    jasaero is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    Don't have to be a race car driver to discover a car's limits. In the hands of professionals at this magazine even the extra mass can catch them off guard. Imagine what happens in a emergency manuever or lane change the weight really shows.

    Norm
    What you are talking about is usually shown most through rhythm sections. That was test most in the V weakest sector compared to the M3 in sector 4. BUT, it beat or matched A LOT of LIGHTER vehicles even in that sector. I am sure power is handy even in that sector and that contributes some, but still impressive given that a lot of those lighter cars probably also ride horribly for a daily commute or relaxed outing compared to this caddy.

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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    If you've spent any time turning the wheel at high speed you'll know that nothing over comes physics. The heaviest cars in it's class. Also one of biggest.

    Norm
    Wasn't that the argument given early on here as to why the V2 would NEVER be as good on the track as a V1, regardless of HP?

    There is more to physics than simple weight. Better and better independent control of how each tire interacts with the road is how cars like the V2 and GT-R beat lighter cars on the track. And there are a lot more gains to be had in this realm in the future.

    In this era of wildly advanced suspensions and stability control systems, a heavier car often beats a lighter less sophisticated car.

  9. #24
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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    Don't have to be a race car driver to discover a car's limits. In the hands of professionals at this magazine even the extra mass can catch them off guard. Imagine what happens in a emergency manuever or lane change the weight really shows.

    Norm
    Yeah, but the odds are that someone who loses control on public roads did so because their driver's IQ dictates they know no better. They most likely would've wiped out in the Cobalt as well...

  10. #25
    NormV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 V in 2008 Car and Driver Lightning Lap

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    Yeah, but the odds are that someone who loses control on public roads did so because their driver's IQ dictates they know no better. They most likely would've wiped out in the Cobalt as well...
    Exactly! Add more weight and momentum is not on your side. Front wheel drive is a little more forgiving as you and I can both attest too.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tony Show View Post
    I see your point, but the public won't have the Stabilitrak disabled like the magazine testers do. If the car gets sideways on public roads, the Stabilitrak will catch it and save the driver's bacon- I know, because it's happened to me a few times.
    Usually, but not always. If you look at collisions there are less and less of side impacts, and more and more of frontal impacts when there are no other cars involved. Insurance industry will back that up. The electronics do their job but as Jim said it is usually the faulty connection between the steering wheel and accelerator pedal. I could not find where C&D changed the electronic handling to get better results on their website.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    What you are talking about is usually shown most through rhythm sections. That was test most in the V weakest sector compared to the M3 in sector 4. BUT, it beat or matched A LOT of LIGHTER vehicles even in that sector. I am sure power is handy even in that sector and that contributes some, but still impressive given that a lot of those lighter cars probably also ride horribly for a daily commute or relaxed outing compared to this caddy.
    I've never been on Sector 4 but it looks like it is a quick up hill area. There is usually compression in the suspension on uphill sections which gives more grip Which explains why the V2 rocks through Sector 2 & 4 and matches the C6 and few others. Trukk was going at it on the Corvette Forums as they could not believe his car was exceeding their MPH in section 2. This is one of few places weight helps as a couple of us have seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by HiTechRV View Post
    Wasn't that the argument given early on here as to why the V2 would NEVER be as good on the track as a V1, regardless of HP?

    There is more to physics than simple weight. Better and better independent control of how each tire interacts with the road is how cars like the V2 and GT-R beat lighter cars on the track. And there are a lot more gains to be had in this realm in the future.

    In this era of wildly advanced suspensions and stability control systems, a heavier car often beats a lighter less sophisticated car.
    If that was true the out dated M5 with less torque by almost 100 lbs. should have been sent home with it's tail between it's legs at Monticello in R&T. But it was not the case.

    Andy was with me at Summit Point when we were following a couple of the V2 test mules. So my V1 weight was up with just headers and an intake. The electronic suspension(MRC) gives more choices, not the best choice.

    Norm

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