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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11 in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; On the V1, the small block cost less than the 3.6. Don't confuse cost and price. Catera Touring Sedan - ...
  1. #31
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    On the V1, the small block cost less than the 3.6. Don't confuse cost and price.

    Catera Touring Sedan - OOPS! - CTS was the watershed car that took Cadillac from being a frumpy old man's brand to a contender. The V's took Cadillac from being a contenter to the leader in luxury performance.

    CTS-V - think halo car.

  2. #32
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    Tony has offered KY in one post, the Vasoline in another. Get the picture?!

    Figure mid-$70's with gas guzzler tax.

    Still a bargain!

    Norm

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony View Post
    Regardless, my point is that the difference between the base CTS and the V is no longer just "larger versions" of the same stuff. It didn't cost any extra to manufacture the FG2 shocks on the 07 CTS-V than the FE3 shocks on the 07 CTS, but it sure costs more to manufacture the Magnetic Ride system than the FE3. Similarly, the base 07 CTS had cast iron rotors, while the V simply had larger cast iron rotors- not much price difference. Two piece rotors add more cost to the 09. The 07's had the same rear as the V6, while the cast iron rear diff in the 09 V costs more than the aluminum piece in the base. And so on......

    All I'm saying is that the differences between the CTS and V have grown far more substantial for the second generation. Where the first V just used bigger pieces of the same construction from the V6, the new model uses some more exotic parts. The price differential between the two will reflect that.

  3. #33
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody_MI View Post
    All executive and "magazine" cars left the plant on Friday 8/1 and the first batch of saleable cars will start either this Monday or next Monday. Hope to be able to provide proof later in the week.
    Any updates, Woody??

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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    Well, it's already Thursday and I haven't received "the call" yet. If I get the call tomorrow, I won't be able to get away to check it out so it looks like next week at the earliest. Sorry all, but I'm just as dissapointed as you. You will all be the second ones to know as I'll post from my phone as soon as I'm done.

  5. #35
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody_MI View Post
    All executive and "magazine" cars left the plant on Friday 8/1 and the first batch of saleable cars will start either this Monday or next Monday. Hope to be able to provide proof later in the week.

    The word around the plant is $68k (don't know if that is base or not and the STS-V jumps to $81k) which is around what all of the wise members of this forum speculated.
    Left the plant, 8/1/08..... arrived in testers hands, 8/2/08.....GIANT smiles on testers faces, 8/2.5/08.
    Are you talkin' smack? Its 8/9/8 and I ain't heard or read a thing.

  6. #36
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody_MI View Post
    Well, it's already Thursday and I haven't received "the call" yet. If I get the call tomorrow, I won't be able to get away to check it out so it looks like next week at the earliest. Sorry all, but I'm just as dissapointed as you. You will all be the second ones to know as I'll post from my phone as soon as I'm done.
    Oh yeah. Missed that.

  7. #37
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony View Post
    Just to clear a few things up:

    The 2008+ CTS was brought to the market with an extremely low margin for the Dealers in an attempt to guarantee the car's success. I think everyone at GM knew they were sitting on a winner, and they wanted to be sure that the magazines and the public would be stunned at the price point for such a nice car. Over the last 12 months, the MSRP has slowly increased by approximately $2,500, part to give Dealers a little more margin and partly due to rising costs of steel, copper and other materials.

    As far as cost comparisons to the first generation V6 CTS, keep in mind that even though the CTS is a lot nicer than Gen.1, there's not a lot of more expensive items on it- a lot of styling changes that improved the car, but not much to raise the cost. The 2008s don't have paddle shifters, still have cast iron rotors, the same wheel sizes, 235 tires, a Naturally Aspirated 3.6L engine, etc, etc. The V model is going to have a bunch of items that cost quite a bit more than the equipment on the Gen.1 V, such as the two piece rotors, larger and wider wheels, wider tires, larger engine, Supercharger, intercooler, extra pulleys, magnetic ride control, Alcantara steering wheel, etc.... I know it seems like an easy comparison to make, but there's a little more to it.

    Also keep in mind that a Gen.1 V6 CTS could barely get up to $45k, even loaded. A gen.1 V with FG2 and a roof was $55k ($10k difference for those keeping score at home). It's now possible to get a V6 CTS up to around $54k, so a $10k difference would put the V at $64k base. If they pull that off with the added cost of all the things mentioned above, it's a hell of a deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by atdeneve View Post
    I don't know about 54k. With a build on Cadillac's site, the maximum I reach, without AWD, is 47,865. AWD would tack on another 1900 to bring it to 49,765. Still 4,000 shy of the 54 you've got above. But, since the V won't have AWD, 10,000 above a similar base CTS would yield approximately 58 for an 09 V.

    Sure, if you start tacking on redundant packages, I can get just shy of 60K, but that'd be misleading. In fact, I'm not sure why the site even allows certain packages to be selectable in combination when it would just be the same content being paid for repeatedly. Makes no sense. A fully loaded base CTS comes in at just about 50K. Just under 48K without AWD.

    Me thinks a fully loaded 09 V at 58K would be lovely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony View Post
    Regardless, my point is that the difference between the base CTS and the V is no longer just "larger versions" of the same stuff. It didn't cost any extra to manufacture the FG2 shocks on the 07 CTS-V than the FE3 shocks on the 07 CTS, but it sure costs more to manufacture the Magnetic Ride system than the FE3. Similarly, the base 07 CTS had cast iron rotors, while the V simply had larger cast iron rotors- not much price difference. Two piece rotors add more cost to the 09. The 07's had the same rear as the V6, while the cast iron rear diff in the 09 V costs more than the aluminum piece in the base. And so on......

    All I'm saying is that the differences between the CTS and V have grown far more substantial for the second generation. Where the first V just used bigger pieces of the same construction from the V6, the new model uses some more exotic parts. The price differential between the two will reflect that.
    Although I wasn't really addressing that point, I got what you were sayin about the difference in relative changes for the 2nd gen. Actually, I was just going off of your 10K difference comparison and saw an opportunity to rationalize a more appetizing price point. So, I just input the actual prices and came up with a wishful 58K. Really, the only point of my post was wanting to see the 58K mark.

    But, now that you bring it up, I do kinda disagree, technically. It's just that I don't think those odd bits and ends that make and distinguish the V from the base CTS add up to 20K+. Yes, the rotors on the V are a composite cast (still not a two piece, though). But I still don't see those as requiring a huge increase in manufacturing costs. The process is not novel. The concept and application is. It's not gonna require new machinery and tooling.

    Larger wheels also hardly add any markup. Take a look at high end custom wheels. What's the difference in price between 18s and 19s. Larger tires? C'mon. There are many instances where larger tires are actually cheaper than smaller ones (in regards to both diameter and width). It's not really linear. And the difference is nil there, as well. Alcantara steering wheel? How's about I throw in 50 bucks for that? No, make it a 100. I mean, really, does that raise the manufacturing costs of the steering wheel by that much? It's only a change in the material used? Leather or synthetic microfiber. Hmmm. Nope, I don't really see a large increase in manufacturing costs there.

    Likewise, I don't see the cast iron diff being much more expensive than the aluminum diff, if at all. The process is not different. In fact, I would think the material cost for aluminum would be more than that of cast iron. The only increase in cost that I can imagine being incurred would be the increased wear on drill bits and/or the use of harder more expensive drill bits. But, again, almost negligible, as I see it.

    The engine? I don't see that engine as being any more expensive than the LS6 (which was hand-built, right?), aside from the supercharger. In fact, the engine itself is probably cheaper than the LS6. So, maybea couple thousand more for the addition of a supercharger. The shocks are costlier by nature of their relative complexity, yes. So, a couple thousand there.

    All in all, I don't see how these individual enhancements add up to more than 20,000 dollars. I just don't. The composite cast brakes, larger wheels, larger tires, synthetic microfiber steering wheel and shift knob, cast iron diff; they're all a couple hundred dollars more expensive, at most. The supercharger and the shocks would add a couple thousand. Taken in whole, I can see a 10-15K markup, but definitely not 20K+. So, 58-63K sound better? Sounds good to me.

    Granted, I'm only referring to a price mark up dictated by the actual increase in manufacturing/material costs. As you were. I'm not saying the 2nd gen V priced above 58-63K, at whatever it ends up being, is not worth it. I'm just saying that I don't necessarily agree that the projected price increase reflects the price increase of the individual upgraded parts. Again, I never said or intend to imply that it does or does not warrant whatever the price increase will be. Cuz, it often is the case that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. But, I still think 58-63K would be nice, no?

  8. #38
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    V-Love, let's get a look see at a larger version of that pic in your avatar.

  9. #39
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    Quote Originally Posted by atdeneve
    I still think 58-63K would be nice, no?
    Yes, I do.
    Tony Pagano
    Sales Manager
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    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  10. #40
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    Quote Originally Posted by atdeneve View Post
    V-Love, let's get a look see at a larger version of that pic in your avatar.
    I tried. I clicked on insert image. How do I enter a URL? Its just a pic in my document file. I'm so feeble that I had to email to Urb so he could make it my avatar.

  11. #41
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    Quote Originally Posted by atdeneve View Post

    All in all, I don't see how these individual enhancements add up to more than 20,000 dollars. I just don't. The composite cast brakes, larger wheels, larger tires, synthetic microfiber steering wheel and shift knob, cast iron diff; they're all a couple hundred dollars more expensive, at most. The supercharger and the shocks would add a couple thousand. Taken in whole, I can see a 10-15K markup, but definitely not 20K+. So, 58-63K sound better? Sounds good to me.

    Granted, I'm only referring to a price mark up dictated by the actual increase in manufacturing/material costs. As you were. I'm not saying the 2nd gen V priced above 58-63K, at whatever it ends up being, is not worth it. I'm just saying that I don't necessarily agree that the projected price increase reflects the price increase of the individual upgraded parts. Again, I never said or intend to imply that it does or does not warrant whatever the price increase will be. Cuz, it often is the case that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. But, I still think 58-63K would be nice, no?
    Bottom line is that the additional costs will not add up to $18-20k, I 100% agree. There is more margin in the V2 than the V1 at the $65-70k price point.

  12. #42
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    If there are saleable units being built or nearly being built, shouldnt there be a press release on pricing? Am I missing something?

  13. #43
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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    GM doesn't have anything to gain by releasing price info this early.

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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11 ***updated 8/20****

    OK, I'm freshly back from ****** and have pictures. These are just from my iPhone (aka not great), and I have a couple of more that I have on a point & shoot (figured the D200 would be a little to obvious).


    ok, only managed to get one picture off the phone as I forgot my cable so I'll publish more late tonight or tomorrow morning....sorry.
    Attached Images

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    Re: Saleable V2 builds to being 8/4 or 8/11

    well there she is guys

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