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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone??? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by urbanski well of course used cars fall in value....and of course not as fast as new. the ...
  1. #46
    Buzz48317 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    well of course used cars fall in value....and of course not as fast as new. the POINT is dont pay a BANK that $464. Pay cash for the used fleece-turn-in these CPAs are bragging about renting for 2 years. Then pay yourself that $464 and watch it grow into real wealth.
    Lesson number 1 in economics is that NO money is free money. There are ALWAYS opportunity costs associatied with using money, whether it be your own or someone else's.

    By this I mean that you need to have the cash first in order to walk into a used car lot and pay cash for a car. That money has to come from somewhere. Some don't have that sort of cash so they don't have the choice, some take it from savings, some from retirements accounts (REALLY REALLY bad idea) and some take it from the values of their homes (in today's Real Estate market this is even a worse idea than borrowing it from your 401, IRA or other retirement vessel).

    You are probably correct in your assertion that if you have the free cash it is probably better to buy the car by using savings less the value of the trade in. By the way, I loved taking in trade ins when I was in car sales...more opportunity to make money from the customer as it is another chance to negotiate, remember if you bought a car, the salesman won, unless the Sales Rep REALLY screws up the customer NEVER wins in the negotiation of a new or used car purchase. If the deal gets too thin for the dealership the salesman will shake your hand and walk you to the door and thank you for stopping in. He will then make it his mission to sell that car to the next person that walks through the door so when you come back a day or so later the car will have a big old "SOLD" sign in the window.

    There are LOTS of reasons that I lease my cars not the least of which happens to do with tax savings for myself and my company. These can vary from contract to contract and will definately vary from state to state. In Michigan, my home state, we pay sales tax from dollar one on new AND used car purchases. However in my lease I pay tax only on the monthly payment. This comes up to about $26.67 per month X the 24 payments and you get $640.08 in total sales tax that I would pay on the car. If I had bought the same PEP car I would have had to shell out $2,472.00 in sales tax to the good old state of Michigan. Now I know that there are states that don't charge sales tax on used cars and there are also states that only charge tax on the difference in price between the trade in and the new purchase, but Michigan does not afford her residents with these luxuries. So I play the hand that I am dealt.

    Shoot, just the difference in sales tax almost pays for the amount of interest that I am being charged in this particular lease. Combine this with the fact that leases are afforded a 'nicer' deduction on income taxes that far outweighs the longer less customer friendly depreciation schedules that the IRS uses for purchased vehicles.

    Look, I am not saying that you are wrong, I am sure that your system works well for you. I have seen people buy used, pay cash, drive the car forever and trade it in when the wheels, proverbaly, fall off. I happen to be in a different place. Vehicle image is VERY important in my line of work and I would not feel comfortable driving a vehicle that is more than a model year old or so. So I am put in a corner that I need to buy either new cars, or VERY lightly used ones. I choose the path that I loose the least amount of money walking down. Let's face it, with a very limited number of exceptions, you ALWAYS loose money buying a car.

  2. #47
    urbanski is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
    urb you can't carry it with you when you die, and if you could it would be worthless.
    yep, but thats no excuse to sacrifice a dignified retirement for "gimme gimme gimme" living for the here and now only.

  3. #48
    urbanski is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz48317 View Post

    Look, I am not saying that you are wrong, I am sure that your system works well for you. I have seen people buy used, pay cash, drive the car forever and trade it in when the wheels, proverbaly, fall off. I happen to be in a different place. Vehicle image is VERY important in my line of work and I would not feel comfortable driving a vehicle that is more than a model year old or so. So I am put in a corner that I need to buy either new cars, or VERY lightly used ones. I choose the path that I loose the least amount of money walking down. Let's face it, with a very limited number of exceptions, you ALWAYS loose money buying a car.
    too bad you "need" that image...still i wonder how a 3-4 year old benz or lexus would fare for you. those can be had for 20K or less all day. I just pulled up 43 GS-series on autotrader for 20. That should be an easy cash purchase, and you will OWN it, not the bank. And with no debt payments, you can invest for retirement....or kids college fund...or paying off the mortgage early.
    Personal finance is just that, personal. My way is not normal. And it is fun to debate

  4. #49
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    yep, but thats no excuse to sacrifice a dignified retirement for "gimme gimme gimme" living for the here and now only.
    You're banking on an unknown. Severe illness or accident could take anything like a "dignified" retirement away. Much less a whole host of other things like a collapsed economy.

  5. #50
    Buzz48317 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
    All of that sounds great. But I simply passed on my actual personal experience from last December. I sat down at the dealership and priced leasing the car, the max they would do is 20K miles (per year) on a 38 month lease. I would have looked at more if it were possible, but it wasn't. Believe it , don't believe it. It's the situation as was offered by the dealership. You're more than welcome to call your local Cadillac dealership and ask them the maximum mileage they'll offer on a 38 month lease on an STS-V.
    I am not doubting you and sorry that it sounded that way from my post. I am fortunate that I don't need that many miles built into my lease so I never explored the top end of the GMAC leases. I was just relating my experiences with Chrysler Financial.

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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    too bad you "need" that image...still i wonder how a 3-4 year old benz or lexus would fare for you. those can be had for 20K or less all day. I just pulled up 43 GS-series on autotrader for 20. That should be an easy cash purchase, and you will OWN it, not the bank. And with no debt payments, you can invest for retirement....or kids college fund...or paying off the mortgage early.
    Personal finance is just that, personal. My way is not normal. And it is fun to debate
    Ohhh, as a daily driver I could not do the Benz or the Lexus. I live and own funeral homes in the Metro Detroit area. I probably could have got away with the benz a few years back with the whole Dailmer Chrysler thing, but there is a lot of bad blood between the Chrysler guys and the Daimler guys now. All of the families that use my services work, or have family who work for the big three. I leased that Acura in 2001 (built in Cleavland, Ohio by American workers, btw) and my father (CEO of the company) about had a stroke. I would drive the TL into work and park it in the garage, but in going on funerals I would either drive the Hearse or take a company mini van. It was uncomfortable for the 24 months that I owned it, fortunately it was only a 24 month commitment. I would have lost my butt had I purchased it. It was a REALLY fun car to drive though.

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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
    You're banking on an unknown. Severe illness or accident could take anything like a "dignified" retirement away. Much less a whole host of other things like a collapsed economy.
    Or as I see everyday an unexpected loss. I live very comfrotably within my means. I drive nice cars, and have a nice house and still manage to squirrel away some money at the end of the month. Funding is going into my daughters college plan, fund my own retirement, bills are getting paid but I could do this job well into my 70's as it is not all that physically taxing and I sorta set my own hours and I really like what I do. Retirement isn't all that it's cracked up to be anyhow. I have a half dozen guys that work for me in one capacity or another who have all 'retired' from their careers. These are guys with Defense department Pensions, Big Three pensions, Social Security, investments from a lifetime of socking a bit away at a time...they don't need the money. They just couldn't take the whole sitting around waiting for the grim reaper thing, so they all went looking for him I suppose

  8. #53
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
    You're banking on an unknown. Severe illness or accident could take anything like a "dignified" retirement away. Much less a whole host of other things like a collapsed economy.
    and i would argue that those with car payments have more risk than me, with no payments.
    what if they suddenly cant make the payment on that "sweet lease" deal he's so proud of? they're stuck selling a very upsidedown car and will have nothing left over but an empty garage and checking account.

    if they'd pay cash for a used car and invest (or bank if you're chicken little) that payment, in 20-40 years they'd have millions. and with that kind of money, you wont be eating Alpo in the medicaid nursing home....no matter what the economy is doing right now.

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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz48317 View Post
    Or as I see everyday an unexpected loss. I live very comfrotably within my means. I drive nice cars, and have a nice house and still manage to squirrel away some money at the end of the month. Funding is going into my daughters college plan, fund my own retirement, bills are getting paid but I could do this job well into my 70's as it is not all that physically taxing and I sorta set my own hours and I really like what I do. Retirement isn't all that it's cracked up to be anyhow. I have a half dozen guys that work for me in one capacity or another who have all 'retired' from their careers. These are guys with Defense department Pensions, Big Three pensions, Social Security, investments from a lifetime of socking a bit away at a time...they don't need the money. They just couldn't take the whole sitting around waiting for the grim reaper thing, so they all went looking for him I suppose
    can i call you in about 30 years? i want to work for you!

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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    and i would argue that those with car payments have more risk than me, with no payments.
    what if they suddenly cant make the payment on that "sweet lease" deal he's so proud of? they're stuck selling a very upsidedown car and will have nothing left over but an empty garage and checking account.

    Insurance can cover accident or death. Minor additional charge on the payment. I get credit life on my contract, if for no other reason it pays the car so my beneficiary gets the car paid for so they can drive it or sell it for cashola. If I shed the car before the end of the insurance, I get the remainder back.

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    Buzz48317 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Lol!!

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    Talking Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    can i call you in about 30 years? i want to work for you!
    LOL!! We're always looking for qualified help. Only problem is that part of the compensation package is a corporate lease

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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    well of course used cars fall in value....and of course not as fast as new. the POINT is dont pay a BANK that $464. Pay cash for the used fleece-turn-in these CPAs are bragging about renting for 2 years. Then pay yourself that $464 and watch it grow into real wealth.
    free advice, it pays to not be stubborn and do the math. start considering the differences in residual value and you will be leasing your next vehicle if you are as savvy with finances as you claim to be. calling it 'renting' seems to put you in the legacy category, but i'm honestly not trying to judge. there is simply no way that i could sell my V for the same residual value that my leases are priced to... especially when there is a second gen model about to come out. the heart of the financial decision is in the residual and has nothing to do with interest payments.

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    Buzz48317 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    free advice, it pays to not be stubborn and do the math. start considering the differences in residual value and you will be leasing your next vehicle if you are as savvy with finances as you claim to be. calling it 'renting' seems to put you in the legacy category, but i'm honestly not trying to judge. there is simply no way that i could sell my V for the same residual value that my leases are priced to... especially when there is a second gen model about to come out. the heart of the financial decision is in the residual and has nothing to do with interest payments.
    there's other practicle reasons to lease also, like the fact that they include gap insurance and the fact that the driver can keep a new warrantied vehicle in their garage. I haven't had to pay for brakes or tired or tune ups since I started leaseing my vehicles, although the brake and tire thing may not apply to you V drivers

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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    free advice, it pays to not be stubborn and do the math. start considering the differences in residual value and you will be leasing your next vehicle if you are as savvy with finances as you claim to be. calling it 'renting' seems to put you in the legacy category, but i'm honestly not trying to judge. there is simply no way that i could sell my V for the same residual value that my leases are priced to... especially when there is a second gen model about to come out. the heart of the financial decision is in the residual and has nothing to do with interest payments.
    no thanks, i have done the math and posted about it many times in this thread. 14% APR, fees, turn in charges, no thanks...you can have it, "Mr. Savvy".

    Leasing is renting in the eyes of the law, dont just take my word for it.
    that is why fleeces are NOT subject to federal full disclosure law. you have no idea what the REAL APR is you are paying, and why would you trust any dealer finance guy anyway? "Sign this, 6%, trust me"
    http://www.carinfo.com/autoleasing.html
    just google for tons more links.
    when YOU add us the math, YOU will realize how dumb fleecing is

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