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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone??? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by urbanski just ask any millionaire, thats what they did, and thats why they are millionaires I am ...
  1. #31
    Buzz48317 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    just ask any millionaire, thats what they did, and thats why they are millionaires
    I am not there yet, but I know a LOT of folks with net worths in excess of 7 figures...they all lease new, but then again, if there are going to be used vehicles for sale in the future someone has to buy the car new, right?

    Not sure where you get the 14%APR thing though. Could you elaborate?

  2. #32
    urbanski is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz48317 View Post

    Not sure where you get the 14%APR thing though. Could you elaborate?
    its all buried in the paperwork that people dont read. fees, "lease factor", charges....thats just for the payments. that doesnt even factor in all the charges at turn in. add it up, it averages 14%....for renting! you get nothing at the end of the fleece. then most folks just turn in a fleece another, never owning anything.

    but i will get a great deal by paying cash for that turned in ride

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    Jpjr is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Not that my opinion matters more than anyone elses, but I am a CPA, and I buy loan backed securities for a living...

    LEASING > BUYING

    Most people that still buy cars are generally not as savvy as leasers. There are more than a few exceptions, but the golden rule continues to be:

    lease depreciating assets, invest/buy appreciating assets

    You can debate all the different costs, rates, mileage, etc., but from a pure philosophical basis it makes sense to lease your car.

    Part of the differences in opinion are legacy based. At one time it was thought of as stature to "buy/own" a car. Many of these people scoff at their neighbor that drives the same car but leased it. Of course, the nieghbor has a giant simle on his face. His payments are probably less, and he is going to make that car someone elses problem in a few years and roll right into a new one.

    This debate is very similar in mortgages. The 30 year fixed homeowner scoffs at the 5/1 hybrid homeowner. But the 5/1 guy is in the same house and could probably afford a car with all the interest he is saving. (assuming prime borrowers and not borrowers over their skis)

  4. #34
    Jpjr is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    PS: I am currently leasing my '06 V. Lease expires in December. My V is about to become someone elses problem and I will roll right into the '09. Boy does it feel great.

  5. #35
    Buzz48317 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    its all buried in the paperwork that people dont read. fees, "lease factor", charges....thats just for the payments. that doesnt even factor in all the charges at turn in. add it up, it averages 14%....for renting! you get nothing at the end of the fleece. then most folks just turn in a fleece another, never owning anything.

    but i will get a great deal by paying cash for that turned in ride
    Generally lease factor charges (the interest part of the lease) average into about a 6% interest rate or so. It depends on the car, but the VAST majority of the lease payment going out is going to pay depreciation on the car. There are turn in fees on some leases that are generally waived if the buyer stays with the same bank and auto company. For the record I have leased my last several cars (1995 Trans Am Vert, Jeep Cherokee Limited, Caterra Sport, Acura TL, Rainier CXS, 2005 STS and now a 2007 STS) and I have NEVER paid a dime for excess wear and tear or lease turn in fees. This stuff is ALWAYS negotiable; ALWAYS.

    My current STS was a PEP car that had 3,555 miles on it when I picked it up. I am in a 24 month lease with 12,000 miles per year and my payments are right at $460 with no money down. Since I probably won't qualify for a PEP car next time around my payments on the 2009 will probably be a bit more than what I am paying now (I will still qualify for GMS pricing) but are going to be a good shot less than what the payments would be on a new car and probably even a far cry from what they would be on a quality used 2008 or 2009. I mean even at 5 years worth of payments you are still looking at about $200 per every $10,000 borrowed per month or so. Compound that on top of the fact that my accountant prefers that we lease our cars and I feel that I will be leasing for quite some time to come; at least until the government lets us write off interest on instalment automotive loans again.

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    urbanski is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    Not that my opinion matters more than anyone elses, but I am a CPA, and I buy loan backed securities for a living...

    LEASING > BUYING

    Most people that still buy cars are generally not as savvy as leasers. There are more than a few exceptions, but the golden rule continues to be: )
    well of course you advocate fleeces....you BUY them from the dealers and make your living that way. duh. leases make dealers the MOST profit of any "sale". they bundle them and sell them off for thousands of dollars/car.
    cash buys make them the least, and of course dont make you a dime. that's like doctors who refer patients to the lab they own for blood tests...you're lining your own pocket adovcating the WORST way to buy cars. jeez

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    urbanski is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    PS: I am currently leasing my '06 V. Lease expires in December. My V is about to become someone elses problem and I will roll right into the '09. Boy does it feel great.
    you're a "CPA" no? glad you dont do my taxes.

    take one of those fancy "financial calculators" and plug that fleece payment of yours into it....in america that averages $464/month. invest that for 40 years at 12%, and it becomes 4.7 million.
    and all you'll have is....well...nothing except mileage overage charges

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    Buzz48317 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    you're a "CPA" no? glad you dont do my taxes.

    take one of those fancy "financial calculators" and plug that fleece payment of yours into it....in america that averages $464/month. invest that for 40 years at 12%, and it becomes 4.7 million.
    and all you'll have is....well...nothing except mileage overage charges
    well yeah, but you gotta drive something...right? $464 per month buys you about a $25,000 used car that'll be worth something far less than that when you are done paying for it in 5 years. Remember even used cars depreciate, albeit not as fast as new cars. If you don't believe that ask yourself how often have you bought a used car and sold it for more than what you paid for it?

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    Buzz48317 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    well of course you advocate fleeces....you BUY them from the dealers and make your living that way. duh. leases make dealers the MOST profit of any "sale". they bundle them and sell them off for thousands of dollars/car.
    cash buys make them the least
    I made my living selling cars for almost 7 years, so I know a little bit about this from the inside. While it is true that cash purchases offer the dealer fewer opportunities for back end profit (credit life/disability insurances, reserve finance interest warranty etc) my 5 largest commissions were on cash purchases and 2 of those were on used cars.

    As far as the dealer is concerned a sale is a sale is a sale whether it is sold as a lease, finance contract or lease. The bottom line to the dealership is how much you base the cash purchase or finance payments or lease payments on. Funding for leases does not come from the dealership. The lease rates and residuals are given to the dealer from the bank. Most dealership will use manufacturer finance sources as they have the most aggressive programs. They do not sign the leases then shop the paper later as you imply.

  10. #40
    Jpjr is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz48317 View Post
    I made my living selling cars for almost 7 years, so I know a little bit about this from the inside. While it is true that cash purchases offer the dealer fewer opportunities for back end profit (credit life/disability insurances, reserve finance interest warranty etc) my 5 largest commissions were on cash purchases and 2 of those were on used cars.

    As far as the dealer is concerned a sale is a sale is a sale whether it is sold as a lease, finance contract or lease. The bottom line to the dealership is how much you base the cash purchase or finance payments or lease payments on. Funding for leases does not come from the dealership. The lease rates and residuals are given to the dealer from the bank. Most dealership will use manufacturer finance sources as they have the most aggressive programs. They do not sign the leases then shop the paper later as you imply.

    this is exactly correct. the dealer cares about sales... not the way the customer pays for them. and leasing makes the most sense, not for taxes, but because you are buying a car that is going to age like vinegar and not wine.

    lease if you are smart and the payments are affordable and comparable. there are too many reasons to justify this, that's all i will say.

  11. #41
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    The long and short of it is-it all depends what money factors, residuals, and financing interest rates are available when the car is purchased. These rates vary according to your credit score and sometimes are negotiable if the dealer is adding in some profit. Depending on how long you want to keep the car and the mileage you plan on using, you have to compare the total cost of all up front lease charges and all the payments vs. the cost of the monthly payments, plus or minus the difference between the sales price when you want to get rid of it and the amount you owe at the time of disposal of the vehicle. This is not rocket science. It is best to shop auto loans and leases for a week or so before you plan on purchasing, and not at the dealership on purchase day. The dealer gives you access to only a few options and frequently they are not the best ones available. If you can use it as a business vehicle, then leasing allows a greater write-off than purchasing and depreciating the vehicle.

    If you keep the car low miles and spotless, selling it will be easier than if you beat on it and abuse it. Then it's easier to turn it in to the bank. The one thing ownership affords you is the ability to get rid of the car whenever you want.

    The bottom line is that everyone's situation is different. It just pays to have a complete knowledge of all the options before you walk in on the day of purchase.

  12. #42
    urbanski is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz48317 View Post
    well yeah, but you gotta drive something...right? $464 per month buys you about a $25,000 used car that'll be worth something far less than that when you are done paying for it in 5 years. Remember even used cars depreciate, albeit not as fast as new cars. If you don't believe that ask yourself how often have you bought a used car and sold it for more than what you paid for it?
    well of course used cars fall in value....and of course not as fast as new. the POINT is dont pay a BANK that $464. Pay cash for the used fleece-turn-in these CPAs are bragging about renting for 2 years. Then pay yourself that $464 and watch it grow into real wealth.

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    urbanski is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    you guys sure are fond of paying fees and interest chages to banks

  14. #44
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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz48317 View Post
    As far as I know banks will write a lease for as many miles as you need. Snip..
    All of that sounds great. But I simply passed on my actual personal experience from last December. I sat down at the dealership and priced leasing the car, the max they would do is 20K miles (per year) on a 38 month lease. I would have looked at more if it were possible, but it wasn't. Believe it , don't believe it. It's the situation as was offered by the dealership. You're more than welcome to call your local Cadillac dealership and ask them the maximum mileage they'll offer on a 38 month lease on an STS-V.

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    Re: any lease pricing yet?????anyone??anyone???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    you guys sure are fond of paying fees and interest chages to banks

    urb you can't carry it with you when you die, and if you could it would be worthless.

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