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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; M3 is pretty sweet IMO, but seems like 335 is a much better deal...
  1. #16
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    M3 is pretty sweet IMO, but seems like 335 is a much better deal

  2. #17
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    $72K fully loaded (every friggin' option I could add to it) Which is a lot IMO.
    <SNIP>
    The car only weights 3700lbs.
    72k is just so much for that car. Also, isn't it sad that we say 'only' 3700 lbs now . All these new cars just have WAY too much bloat.

    If I was an M3 fan boy, and had to have one, and had 72k in my pocket I'd punt the e92, and buy an e30, e36 and e46 convertible. The e46 could be the daily driver, the e30 could be the track car, and e36 could be the backup. You'd still have change left over, and have 3 M3's.

    Does anyone not think it is just absolutely RETARDED to have a car at this price point come with cloth seats?

    I could understand BWUU coming out with a 'track package', that would include a stripper interior for those buying this exclusively as a track car.

    Honesly following this path, I think GM should come out with a $40k Z06. It may need mild options to be comparable to a 911.



    Anyone that thinks the majority of M3 owners are buying this new one as strictly (or even for the majority of it's time), as a track car is deluding themselves.

    -Chris
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  3. #18
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony View Post
    Whoops- page 3 of that M3 article shows a true 0-60 time of 4.6 seconds, not 4.3 like the body of the article stated. The 4.3 seconds was acheived with a rollout.

    http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...4/pageNumber=3
    Nice catch. Didn't see that. I must admit though, seeing a .3sec. difference just because of a 1 foot rollout is VERY surprising to me. Never seen THAT much of a difference at the track.

  4. #19
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by trukk View Post
    72k is just so much for that car. Also, isn't it sad that we say 'only' 3700 lbs now . All these new cars just have WAY too much bloat.

    If I was an M3 fan boy, and had to have one, and had 72k in my pocket I'd punt the e92, and buy an e30, e36 and e46 convertible. The e46 could be the daily driver, the e30 could be the track car, and e36 could be the backup. You'd still have change left over, and have 3 M3's.

    Does anyone not think it is just absolutely RETARDED to have a car at this price point come with cloth seats?

    I could understand BWUU coming out with a 'track package', that would include a stripper interior for those buying this exclusively as a track car.

    Honesly following this path, I think GM should come out with a $40k Z06. It may need mild options to be comparable to a 911.



    Anyone that thinks the majority of M3 owners are buying this new one as strictly (or even for the majority of it's time), as a track car is deluding themselves.

    -Chris
    I totally agree but the same could be said about many cars, as well as the CTS-V. I'm sure you could buy 2 or 3 V1's for the price of a fully-loaded V2. Especially when they first come out and pricing is at it's highest. Besides, My guess is you'll see a whole lot more M3's priced towards the bottom of the scale rather than the top end.

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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    There are quite a few different numbers out there for 0-60 times. Car & Driver has managed 4.1s for 0-60:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_g...take_road_test

    Back to the original post, I disagree that somebody putting a $100k asking price on a new M3 sedan gives the V2 a lot of breathing room. The dealer is trying to make a quick buck on the first ones to arrive. Let him. The smart folks will shop somewhere else. Keep in mind that the previous gen M3 was a great success, so they're now trying to cash in. There is no guarantee the car will be sold for that much. There are still dealers putting a 10k markup on a new Z06 whereas they can be had between 6-8k under MSRP.

    Ignoring the 30k markup, even the 70k loaded price is very steep. I'm betting that BMW is going to find out that with the amount of competition in the 400+ hp segment and more importantly with the way the economy is going they will see some disappointing sales numbers. I seem to recall that it was simply impossible to get an M3 below MSRP in the first few years. I think that's going to change. Yes, based on the success of the previous model they'll get a lot of folks that want to upgrade, but once they find out the price difference and the other alternatives not everybody is blindly going to switch.

    In my opinion if GM wants to be successful with the V2 and want to attract a lot of new buyers from the other brands they are going to have to stand out by offering more performance, better quality for less money. This is what they're attempting to do right now, so let them stay on track. Don't think that because a loaded M3 can go for $70l, GM can now price the V2 for $70k. They need to stay in the low $60k.

    Finally, yes marketing is trying to position it against M5 and that's the most valid comparison, but there will be prospective M3 owners thinking about buying the V2 as well.

  6. #21
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Previously, I had been concerned that the V2 may be priced too high, mainly due to how it compared to the V1 prices. I had also seen advertised pricing for the M3 in the $50's. This made me fearful that the V2 may be over-improved and be forced to be over-priced.
    Now, seeing that for the base price, you barely get the M3 badge.....I'm thinking that a fully optioned M3 at $72k means the V2 should be fine as long as it prices in below that. And I think that "should be" do-able.
    As far as the CTS-V being compared more directly with the M5, I still think that is wrong. Like it or not, the CTS is still the "entry-level" Cadillac, same as the 3-series BMW, hence the direct comparison. IMO, the STS should be the direct comparison for the 5-series. It's really not the specs you're comparing, it's where the car stacks up in the model line.

  7. #22
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    <snip>

    As far as the CTS-V being compared more directly with the M5, I still think that is wrong. Like it or not, the CTS is still the "entry-level" Cadillac, same as the 3-series BMW, hence the direct comparison. IMO, the STS should be the direct comparison for the 5-series. It's really not the specs you're comparing, it's where the car stacks up in the model line.
    So in 2 months when the 1 series comes out, the CTS will compete against that?

    Size is size, no matter where it is positioned in the model lineup.

    -Chris
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  8. #23
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    Got to remember that this car and it's predicessor are designed for racing series around the world. V2 will not be in any series on a world level.
    So are other lightweight, cheap on luxury cars like the Elise and Viper. If I were looking for a race car reverse homologated to be street legal I'd buy one of those.

    Prestige Luxury is a class that values ride, comfort and amenities over raw power to weight ratio, like the E63 and the CTS-V.
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    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  9. #24
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    I'm not sure where some of you guys get the idea that the M3 is in any way "cheap on luxury". And as far as the 1-series goes, my guess is the sub-CTS class Caddy like the BLS will be more of a direct comparison there. Come on now, you can't argue that the CTS and the 3-series are the most direct models in these two brands.

  10. #25
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    I'm not sure where some of you guys get the idea that the M3 is in any way "cheap on luxury".
    Cloth freaking seats. The end.

    And as far as the 1-series goes, my guess is the sub-CTS class Caddy like the BLS will be more of a direct comparison there. Come on now, you can't argue that the CTS and the 3-series are the most direct models in these two brands.
    Size and horsepower are the deciding factors in comparing cars, not "where it falls in the lineup". Using that kind of logic, the Bentley Flying Spur is also a CTS competitor since it's the entry level.
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  11. #26
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    I'm not sure where some of you guys get the idea that the M3 is in any way "cheap on luxury". And as far as the 1-series goes, my guess is the sub-CTS class Caddy like the BLS will be more of a direct comparison there. Come on now, you can't argue that the CTS and the 3-series are the most direct models in these two brands.
    CTS = BMUU 4 series.

    The End.

    -Chris
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    2012 CTS-V:No Roof|Wagon|M6|Recaros|Bone stock (for now) <-- SOLD

  12. #27
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    Come on now, you can't argue that the CTS and the 3-series are the most direct models in these two brands.
    Of course we can forever argue about how the segments are defined, but if you just go by the all the dimensions of the car, GM went out of their way to make it a 5-series competitor, not a 3-series. Performance wise, the V will beat the M5 as well. I'm just hoping it will be able to match it in quality and luxury features as well. I'll wait until I see one in person.

  13. #28
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by trukk View Post
    CTS = BMUU 4 series.

    The End.

    -Chris
    I'm thinking maybe more like 4.3.



    Quote Originally Posted by luxilon View Post
    ... Performance wise, the V will beat the M5 as well. I'm just hoping it will be able to match it in quality and luxury features as well. I'll wait until I see one in person.




    They better not price it too far above $60k-62k (base). And, adding the roof and the recaros (which is what I'd like to do) better not add much. My wife ain't gonna go for anything pushing $70k.

  14. #29
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony View Post
    Cloth freaking seats. The end.



    Size and horsepower are the deciding factors in comparing cars, not "where it falls in the lineup". Using that kind of logic, the Bentley Flying Spur is also a CTS competitor since it's the entry level.
    Believe it or not, some people prefer cloth to leather. BTW, they offer it BOTH ways. And I believe they offer an extended leather interior, which I think means more than just the seating areas, while my guess is, the Caddy is probably only leather seating areas as usual.
    As for power and size being the deciding factors, then you're saying that until the V2 comes out, the STS-V is a the best competition for the M5?

  15. #30
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    Re: M3 Pricing gives V2 breathing room

    Quote Originally Posted by luxilon View Post
    Of course we can forever argue about how the segments are defined, but if you just go by the all the dimensions of the car, GM went out of their way to make it a 5-series competitor, not a 3-series. Performance wise, the V will beat the M5 as well. I'm just hoping it will be able to match it in quality and luxury features as well. I'll wait until I see one in person.
    On dimensions alone, the STS is virtually identical to the CTS, so I fail to see how GM went to such great lengths to make the CTS a direct 5-series competitor. Plus, without doing the digging, my guess is the slight difference in size makes the STS closer to the 5-series.
    Hell, put it this way, if the CTS is the competition for the 5-series, what's the STS supposed to compete with, the 7-series?

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