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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, As Fast As An 07 Corvette in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; You have to be moving on Nurburgring to get air. This V gets air 6 times in a lap. I'm ...
  1. #31
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    You have to be moving on Nurburgring to get air. This V gets air 6 times in a lap. I'm thinking the straight line and cornering performance will be acceptable LOL.

    To save weight I'd go aluminum trunk lid and hood, and carbon fiber roof. You save a lot of weight and lower the center of gravity. But that will ring up the $$$!

  2. #32
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac View Post
    I'm going to reopen this thread but I don't want the same old argument starting up again. All I want to do is ask a simple question to the original poster.

    What should the 2009 CTS-V sacrifice in order to become lighter?
    Ok I have an answer for you! Maybe the V shouldn't sacrifice anything..Instead they should have used the same supercharger as on the ZR-1 and the V should have the same HP output as the ZR-1. This way it would be faster than it is with 550hp but not even close to the ZR-1 because of the weight difference. I just want the 09 V to be as fast as a LS7 Z06.

  3. #33
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    With the horsepower wars probably coming to an end, Katshot has a point about the weight. Then again, as Tony said, take off this and that, and now it's a Pontiac. So you can't remove the luxuries - but maybe there's a way with the building materials. It IS odd to me how the CTS-V is smaller than a Fleetwood but ends-up weighing the same. Maybe it just needs heavier materials for reinforcement or something.

    Will the horsepower wars end? Maybe. Many people feel companies are irresponsible for producing such high performance gas guzzling vehicles. Personally, I don't see it to be such a problem being that so few people are buying them. So at that thought, maybe it's not coming to an end. Maybe these vehicles will simply be that much more exclusive...

    In any event, it would be nice to see them weight less. And I'm sure if GM can figure out a good way to do it, they will...
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  4. #34
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    I think you're probably right Sal. Costs in the way of extra taxes could be used to dissuade people from buying high performance/low-economy cars, OR it's possible the 70's could repeat themselves and legislation/insurance costs could take a healthy bite out of this market segment. Either way, it would certainly cause these type of cars to become more exclusive.
    But IMO, this is precisely why I feel the OEMs must stop the insanity and start moving the weight bar DOWN. Think Lotus Elise and you'll see where I'm looking for direction. Power to weight ratio that will pin you to your seat AND handle like a slot-car! All in a package that can be made to run pretty darn economical. Start doing THAT in some quantity, and the costs will tumble. No real down-side there.

  5. #35
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    I think you're probably right Sal. Costs in the way of extra taxes could be used to dissuade people from buying high performance/low-economy cars, OR it's possible the 70's could repeat themselves and legislation/insurance costs could take a healthy bite out of this market segment. Either way, it would certainly cause these type of cars to become more exclusive.
    But IMO, this is precisely why I feel the OEMs must stop the insanity and start moving the weight bar DOWN. Think Lotus Elise and you'll see where I'm looking for direction. Power to weight ratio that will pin you to your seat AND handle like a slot-car! All in a package that can be made to run pretty darn economical. Start doing THAT in some quantity, and the costs will tumble. No real down-side there.
    Hmm, 20+ mpg in the cofort of a CTS-V with 550hp or ride around in a go-kart for better fuel mileage. I have no problem with wanting to reduce the weight but don't sacrifice on the comfort and amenities to do it. I like my performance with comfort.

  6. #36
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    Quote Originally Posted by P-Funk View Post
    Hmm, 20+ mpg in the cofort of a CTS-V with 550hp or ride around in a go-kart for better fuel mileage. I have no problem with wanting to reduce the weight but don't sacrifice on the comfort and amenities to do it. I like my performance with comfort.
    Who suggested that you should give up any creature comforts? The point was to produce a car with similar power to weight ratio, only at a lower level. Say knock the weight off by 20% and then you can have the same power to weight ratio with 20% less engine. And at that level, the car will certainly be able to enjoy better handling and fuel economy.

  7. #37
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    just increase HP. They should have used the same set up as the ZR-1

  8. #38
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    Quote Originally Posted by Kidhummer View Post
    just increase HP. They should have used the same set up as the ZR-1
    They wouldn't do that because that setup is exclusive for the ZR-1. If words got out that the CTS-V was using the exact engine as the ZR-1 people wouldn't buy the Corvette that would cost over double the price as a CTS-V and on top of it the price would get bumped up as well. But be expecting cars to get more and more heavy over time because of safety features weight the cars down. Rumor has it that the Challenger is tipping the scales at 4400 lbs!

  9. #39
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    Quote Originally Posted by Kidhummer View Post
    just increase HP. They should have used the same set up as the ZR-1
    A little too simplistic. Besides, you think 550hp isn't enough?

  10. #40
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    John Heinricy already put the "no car is allowed to be faster than a 'Vette" rumor to bed, so why does everyone keep bringing it up? It's not true. The CTS-V could have 700 hp and it wouldn't outgun the ZR-1 simply due to weight.

    The reason they didn't use the ZR-1 engine in the V is because of the expense involved in building that engine- the exotic materials and hand built nature of that engine would easily take the cost of the CTS-V into the stratosphere, maybe even higher than the AMGs. Since they're spending tons of money on luxuries that the ZR-1 doesn't have they need to cut costs elsewhere, and in this case it was possible to get almost as much power out of the engine and still save a ton of money by making the changes they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    Who suggested that you should give up any creature comforts? The point was to produce a car with similar power to weight ratio, only at a lower level. Say knock the weight off by 20% and then you can have the same power to weight ratio with 20% less engine. And at that level, the car will certainly be able to enjoy better handling and fuel economy.
    I agree that this would be great, but I think it's a lot less expensive to add power than it is to reduce weight. Easy weight reductions (like pulling the spare, navigation, heated seats, etc) would be easy, but you can't compromise luxury. The only place left to go is using exotic materials like CF or magnesium, and I think that would be far more expensive than just bumping up the boost and retuning the engine.
    Rest in Peace, J.D. (aka Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)

  11. #41
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tony Show View Post
    Easy weight reductions (like pulling the spare, navigation, heated seats, etc) would be easy, but you can't compromise luxury.
    Why not? It worked for this car



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  12. #42
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tony Show View Post
    John Heinricy already put the "no car is allowed to be faster than a 'Vette" rumor to bed, so why does everyone keep bringing it up? It's not true.
    Well there's my claim to fame! I asked John that question in the conference. However, I do hope it's true. I mean - he could just be saying that. But, I don't think so...
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  13. #43
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac View Post
    Well there's my claim to fame! I asked John that question in the conference. However, I do hope it's true. I mean - he could just be saying that. But, I don't think so...
    A new XLR-V would tell for sure. That is a car that should end up being a luxury version of the ZR1. It may get edged out by the ZR1 in performance due to the necessary added creature comforts, but there should be no excuse to load it with a less potent engine if the "no car shall outperform the Corvette" rule is truly a myth.

    Take a ZR1, add a Cadillac body, a handcrafted interior, a few innovative gadgets, and we can go hunting after the top of the line AMGs (and maybe take another shot at LeMans to build credibility). It would be this generation's '59 Eldorado Biarritz. Excess in every way.

  14. #44
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    Don't be surprised if the next XLR is more along the line of the Cien concept instead of the Corvette based model we currently have. Cadillac was very wise to use the Corvette chassis to keep costs low while rebuilding Cadillac's status. With the '08 CTS drawing massive praise, the coupe concept knocking everyone's socks off and the 2009 CTS-V getting the attention it is, the reinvention of the brand is in full swing.

    Once Cadillac is fully credible in the world again, expect to see more unique chassis and powertrains in them.
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    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  15. #45
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    Re: As Fast As An 07 Corvette

    I agree with Gothicaleigh.. Let's see what the next XLR-V is like before we take what John said to heart. Otherwise, Cadillac isn't even sure if there's going to BE a next XLR right now. Though it would be kinda silly to stop building it as it makes the Corvette platform make that much more sense.

    Anything like the Cien would be pretty amazing!
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