Is the LS9 the LSA SC?
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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Is the LS9 the LSA SC? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Is the ZR1 engine the CTS-V LSA SC? Both are SC 6.2's, but with different power levels (presumably). Gottaat least ...
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    HiTechRV's Avatar
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    Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    Is the ZR1 engine the CTS-V LSA SC? Both are SC 6.2's, but with different power levels (presumably). Gottaat least be cammed differently from each other based on the vehicle weights.

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    No. The LSA and LS9 are completely different engines. Granted both are supercharged, but the LS9 will be handbuilt just like the LS7 but the LSA will be line built. Expect to see the LSA in other GM models soon......in my opinion.

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    Different superchargers and as far as the other GM models that is correct there is a truck version slated for the Escalade V as long as CAFE doesnt kill it.

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadonny View Post
    Expect to see the LSA in other GM models soon......in my opinion.
    Hmm, like the next gen Camaro?!

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    Quote Originally Posted by V-Smooth View Post
    Hmm, like the next gen Camaro?!


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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    bigger blower and forged internals/Ti rods etc in the LS9

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    Question Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    I've read that the ZR1 will have 600-620HP which is only 50 more than the CTSV. It doesn't seem like it would need all of the extra Ti internals etc for that small bump. The LSA in the CTSV will be under more load due to the 1,000lb. weight increase for the V. If they needed to got to Ti for the 50 extra hp, I'd think the LSA must be much closer to the "limit" than the LS9 in the ZR1.

    I'm wondering if we can bolt on the SC from the LS9 onto the LSA?

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrocks View Post
    I've read that the ZR1 will have 600-620HP which is only 50 more than the CTSV. It doesn't seem like it would need all of the extra Ti internals etc for that small bump. The LSA in the CTSV will be under more load due to the 1,000lb. weight increase for the V. If they needed to got to Ti for the 50 extra hp, I'd think the LSA must be much closer to the "limit" than the LS9 in the ZR1.

    I'm wondering if we can bolt on the SC from the LS9 onto the LSA?
    You probably could, but why?

    The ZR1 as mentioned has a larger sized Eaton 2300 supercharger and the CTSV has the smalle sized 1900 series supercharger.

    But that is where all of the similarities end.

    The CTSV has a stock LS3 bottom end that is rated at a maximum of 650 HP which can be easily achieved with a cam and ported heads package.

    I would even bet that a smaller pulley, headers and a more effective cold air intake and less restrictive exhaust and a good tune would get the job done and get you over 600 BHP and I would call it a day.

    Anything more than that has you on the edge of the factories cast internals and any more HP would really require alot more coin with regard to a forged internal rototating assembly.

    The ZR1 is a hand built "exotic supercar engine" with exotic forged titanium and nickle alloys, larger bolt main caps, etc. This is basically a bulletproof engine that is capable of producing 1000BHP with the appropriate drive train modifications.

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    Smile Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    I believe I've read that the LS9 is based on the LS3 motor rather than the LSA that goes into the V

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadonny View Post
    No. The LSA and LS9 are completely different engines. Granted both are supercharged, but the LS9 will be handbuilt just like the LS7 but the LSA will be line built. Expect to see the LSA in other GM models soon......in my opinion.

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    Talking Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    From a marketing standpoint, the LS9 is likely being built at the start of it's HP life - that way, next year the price goes up another 5K and the Hp goes up another 50hp etc, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrocks View Post
    I've read that the ZR1 will have 600-620HP which is only 50 more than the CTSV. It doesn't seem like it would need all of the extra Ti internals etc for that small bump. The LSA in the CTSV will be under more load due to the 1,000lb. weight increase for the V. If they needed to got to Ti for the 50 extra hp, I'd think the LSA must be much closer to the "limit" than the LS9 in the ZR1.

    I'm wondering if we can bolt on the SC from the LS9 onto the LSA?

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    read the Edmund's article on the '09 V.

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    Quote Originally Posted by pietroraimondi View Post
    You probably could, but why?

    The ZR1 as mentioned has a larger sized Eaton 2300 supercharger and the CTSV has the smalle sized 1900 series supercharger.

    But that is where all of the similarities end.

    The CTSV has a stock LS3 bottom end that is rated at a maximum of 650 HP which can be easily achieved with a cam and ported heads package.

    I would even bet that a smaller pulley, headers and a more effective cold air intake and less restrictive exhaust and a good tune would get the job done and get you over 600 BHP and I would call it a day.

    Anything more than that has you on the edge of the factories cast internals and any more HP would really require alot more coin with regard to a forged internal rototating assembly.

    The ZR1 is a hand built "exotic supercar engine" with exotic forged titanium and nickle alloys, larger bolt main caps, etc. This is basically a bulletproof engine that is capable of producing 1000BHP with the appropriate drive train modifications.
    It was just a thought.

    What I was wondering was: why add so much more durability to the ZR1 when its engine will be under less load? GM knows, or they should know that the '09 Vs will be driven hard. Probably harder than a lot of ZR1s because quite a few buyers will see the ZR1 as a "collectors car" (I do).

    I don't know why GM would build it to withstand 1000HP (but I'm all for it) because if someone mods it to get that power and blows it up (it will), GM doesn't care and you have no warranty.

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrocks View Post
    It was just a thought.

    What I was wondering was: why add so much more durability to the ZR1 when its engine will be under less load? GM knows, or they should know that the '09 Vs will be driven hard. Probably harder than a lot of ZR1s because quite a few buyers will see the ZR1 as a "collectors car" (I do).

    I don't know why GM would build it to withstand 1000HP (but I'm all for it) because if someone mods it to get that power and blows it up (it will), GM doesn't care and you have no warranty.
    You have to remember that the Corvette is "America's Sports Car". The Cadillac CTSV is a "Sports Sedan".

    And with that said; comparing the two cars and asking "why so much more durability in the ZR1 versus the CTSV" is comparing apples to oranges.

    The ZR1 represents on the sports car (two seater) world stage the finest and most over the top engineering available from GM in the design of this automobile. From it's handbuilt engine with exotic alloy forged internals, to it's hydroformed aluminum chassis, magnesium engine cradle, forged billet aluminum suspension componets, kevlar and carbon fiber body components; the ZR1 at $120k (estimated) represents a true exotic super car at about half the price minimum when compared to the Lamborghini Gallardo and Ferrari F430.

    The Cadillac CTSV regardless of those that will track these vehicles and run them hard and put them away wet; the CTSV is targeted to those high performance luxury sedan buyers that would otherwise consider the BMW M5, Mercedes AMG series sedans etc.

    The interior craftsmanship of the new CTSV looks to be gorgeous and IMO far superior to what is offered from BMW, Mercedes and Audi.

    The LS9 engine in the new CTSV is nothing more than the 6.2 liter LS3 engine with cast internals and an Eaton supercharger that is rated at 550/550.

    GM engineering reports that the LS3 engine with it's cast internal rotating assembly is rated at a maximum of 650 HP. So there is probably more HP left on the table that can be added with a tune, headers and exhaust to push the CTSV to probably 600 HP. Anything more than that is going to require a forged rotating assembly.

    I would guess for most folks that as soon as they drive the new CTSV; their mods will most likely be limited to a CAI, Headers and a catback exhaust with a hot tune.

    The only wild card is how the drive train is going to hold up and I have to believe that GM really got it right this time on the second generation CTSV.

    But to answer your question: the ZR1 represents the trickle down effect of what was learned in the C6R racing program and the ZR1 Corvette is a sports car.

    The CTSV on the other hand is a high performance luxury sport sedan that is targeted to a completely different demographic IMO.

    Remember that Cadillac decided to exit it's presence in the SCCA World Challenge and GM has decided to let Chevrolet with the Corvette and its C6R program run with GM's presence in factory sponsored racing.

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrocks View Post
    I've read that the ZR1 will have 600-620HP which is only 50 more than the CTSV. It doesn't seem like it would need all of the extra Ti internals etc for that small bump. The LSA in the CTSV will be under more load due to the 1,000lb. weight increase for the V. If they needed to got to Ti for the 50 extra hp, I'd think the LSA must be much closer to the "limit" than the LS9 in the ZR1.

    I'm wondering if we can bolt on the SC from the LS9 onto the LSA?
    With the lower 9 to 1 compression ratio in the new V you should be able to boost the blower from the factory 6-8 pounds to 14 or 15 pounds with a simple pulley change. That should be good for at least 40 to 50 horsepower. Of course you will need a new tune but it is still a lot of bang for the buck and is very simple to do. We used to do that with our Eaton blowers in the Lightning.

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    Re: Is the LS9 the LSA SC?

    I heard somewhere where the pulley is fixed. Can someone confirm or deny?

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