$889 advertising fee?

[Nashtyboy]

I talked to two more dealers about it, and they both said that the GM advert fee is built into the invoice. You will never see it on the MSRP window sticker, but if you list out the actual order invoice line by line, it is baked into it by GM. I agreed this evening with my nearby dealer on my CTS, so it's on the way! I'm pretty excited. It was ordered two weeks ago and is already in the GM system, at stage 2500, whatever that means.

Paying this:

08 CTS DI + PDQ + Y42 + ZAA + Window tinting ($275) + Rear Spoiler ($399) + 3% tax = $45,675 OTD

I'm pretty happy with the deal, it's coming in about a grand over invoice or so when all is said and done. Chalk up another 3 grand or so for some sweet 20" wheels, and it will be an even 50k and one mean ride.

[Pucks]

Originally Posted by LFG

I priced the car on Edmunds & Cars.com for the invoice and this is what I paid, no BS. If the advertising was in the invoice....so be it, but don't add it on after we get to the bottom line of the deal. I can live without the car, so they knew were I was coming from. $45,250 MS $40,950 invoice, done deal......Plus tax & tags.

I hear you. The thing is there are multiple invoice prices. The "manufacturer" invoice might not include the advertising but the "dealer" invoice will include the advertising. Based on the numbers you posted above - that invoice would NOT include any advertising.

[PAO]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony

Just to clear things up a bit:

Some Dealers have an "Administration Fee", which covers costs of doing paperwork and business and allows them to sell cars at or close to Invoice while still being profitable. The $199 charge you mentioned is that fee, and some Dealers will back it out of the price of the car. Down here in FL most Cadillac Dealers have an Admin fee between $600 and $800.

"Advertising (or LMG and LAM) Costs" are (as Zymurgy pointed out) actual costs charged to the Dealer by GM to have their name and phone number included in the National Print ads that GM runs in Newspapers and TV. The money MUST be paid to GM, and you'll have a hard time finding a Dealer willing to lose $900 to sell you a car, especially a hot one like the CTS. This is not an "added item", but part of the Dealer's actual cost on the car.

This is one of the reasons I hate Edmunds "invoice" pricing- because my actual invoice includes approximately $900 of LMG fees, and they don't show it on their web site, thus creating unrealistic expectations.

I agree with Tony here....and if your dealer didnt add that on to his "invoice price" he ate that costs.......and for those that use edmunds as the "true" invoice price...here is a copy and paste from edmunds...in the small print section, if can be found under their explanation of advertising fees:


""The invoice price does not include any fees that may be charged by the manufacturer to dealers in a particular area of the country, such as local advertising fees, dealer association fees, or docking and storage fees. Edmunds.com does not track or provide such local fees.

If a local fee appears on the invoice, it is an actual cost that the dealer paid to the manufacturer when buying the vehicle. In other cases dealers may choose to write in their own ad fees on the consumer sales contract. However, in either case these local fees are a part of the dealer's cost of doing business.

Many consumers attempt to determine the dealer's "actual cost" for a vehicle and then "allow" for the dealer to make some profit. However, the invoice price is almost always higher than the amount the dealer actually ends up paying to the manufacturer. This results from a variety of discounts offered to the dealer that do not appear on the invoice. The two most common discounts are "dealer holdback" and "manufacturer-to-dealer cash" - both of which are available on Edmunds.com - but there are often others that are not generally known and that are based on other factors (for example, the dealer's sales volume for a particular month).""

I find the admin fees the ones that vary the greatest between dealerships...most in MD only charge a $99 fee, while most in VA charge $300-$500......and Im still getting the best offers from MD dealerships around the DC area

[928S]

Originally Posted by Jschmank

Dealer "hold backs" are also not on the sticker but work to the dealer's advantage. On the CTS I understand this is 3% that goes back to the dealer. So if the invoice doesn't include the extra advertising fees the dealer may have to pay, it also doesn't include the holdback that goes back to the dealer.

The dealer's invoice not only conceals holdback,

it also does not take into account the many undisclosed direct-to-dealer discounts, incentives and rebates that dealers receive in various amounts throughout the model year to further reduce the cost of vehicles sold. These are in addition to the publicly-disclosed dealer incentives and rebates that we all hear about from time to time.

.

[Zymurgy]

Originally Posted by Nashtyboy

... It was ordered two weeks ago and is already in the GM system, at stage 2500, whatever that means. ...

Status Event Codes:

1100-Order placed at dealer
1101-Order accepted by GM
2001-Order generated to dealer
2005-Order replaced with GM Prospec order
2050-Order changed
2500-Order sent to production, preferenced
3000-Order accepted by production control
3100-Order available to sequence (now the tpw becomes more stable)
3300-Order selected for production by assembly plant
3400-Order broadcasted for production
3800-Vehicle produced
4150-Vehicle invoiced to dealer
4200-Vehicle shipped
5000-Vehicle delivered to dealer
6000-Vehicle delivered to customer

[mikeokeefe]

Is the advertising fee normally listed on the invoice or the "add-ons" sticker? I don't remember seeing a line item for it on my purchase. found plenty of other addons though, including a fairly big admin fee that I got removed.

[Bathel]

Originally Posted by mikeokeefe

Is the advertising fee normally listed on the invoice or the "add-ons" sticker? I don't remember seeing a line item for it on my purchase. found plenty of other addons though, including a fairly big admin fee that I got removed.

it should be listed on the dealer invoice as it's a line item charge to the dealer from GM.

[caddygirl80]

Originally Posted by Zymurgy

Dealers can participate in a co-op advertising program with GM. If they do participate, then they are invoiced by GM for every car they get. Simply find a dealer that does not participate in the co-op advertising program and you will not see the advertising fee.

Most dealers participate in this program. Dealership pay a certain % of MSRP on every vehicle to pay for commercials and other advertising Cadillac provides for them saying contact your local Cadillac Dealership. This % is charged on the invoice. It's not a profit to the dealership.

[MoFex]

But isn't it included in MSRP and dealer invoice? I believe it is. And if it is it should not be listed on customer invoice as a separate line item. If the dealer does it, it is a pure profit maker....

[Southern]

This will cost GM a lot of sales.

If you expect me to come back to American cars, you can't just rape me.
Admin fee between $600 and $800?
Advertising $900?


You guys are smoking dope.

[MoFex]

Homer,

It is not American Cars thingy…..this is dealer way of making profit. I have owned many different cars and they all do it. When I was buying my current car the dealer tried to hit me with “Teflon coating” for $995. Not negotiable as it was already done! When asked what it was the salesman told me it was superior coating so I did not have to wash the car for 12 months! What a BS! Go to an AutoZone shop, buy a can of Teflon whatever and spray….pure profit for the dealer….and it wasn’t American Cars dealer….

Just to get things straight – dealers are in the business to make profit. I totally understand it. And I do agree to make it happen. However, I cannot stand the BS some of them are feeding us. The mathematics is simple – they pay car manufacturer certain amount. They have operation cost. It has to be covered. They sell us car for certain amount higher that they paid the manufacturer. The difference has to cover expenses and profit. Simple as that. Now that customers become more educated, and because of psychology, they lower the car price to make it look good and try to hit as with imaginary fees. Simply for profit. I am not saying that all of the fees are not legitimate but most of them should be included in dealer operating expenses. If you, dealers want to list so many fee items let’s go all the way and list all of them! Including manufacturer’s incentives. Kick backs etc…..and show me your true operating expenses and profit….I will agree to pay you a decent profit, let’s say 20%. I know it sounds simplistic the bottom line is do not feed me BS……There is nothing worse for me if somebody is lying straight to my face….I have walked off a few dealers in the past who did it….and I do not regret…

[caddygirl80]

Originally Posted by MoFex

But isn't it included in MSRP and dealer invoice? I believe it is. And if it is it should not be listed on customer invoice as a separate line item. If the dealer does it, it is a pure profit maker....

It is included in the MSRP and dealer invoice. When you look at the invoice they itemize equipment cost, paint cost etc. Advertising fees are one of the itemized costs on the invoice. It's not a profit maker for the dealership. If they pay to participate in the LMG program and there is another dealership within 50-100 miles of them that doesn't participate, the other dealership can sell the same vehicle for less money, even though they're benefiting from the advertising Cadillac does for the dealership that is paying to participate. The advertising doesn't single out a dealership, it simply states at the end of the commercial to visit your local Cadillac dealership.

[MoFex]

caddygirl,

so you confirmed my statement. It is included in dealer invoice and MSRP. So if we negotiated a price with the dealer les't say $X above the invoice and then suddenly he is adding the advertising fee it is a profit maker as it already been included in invoice....

[caddygirl80]

Originally Posted by MoFex

caddygirl,

so you confirmed my statement. It is included in dealer invoice and MSRP. So if we negotiated a price with the dealer les't say $X above the invoice and then suddenly he is adding the advertising fee it is a profit maker as it already been included in invoice....

Sorry misunderstood you. If they try to charge you advertising after the fact then yes, it's a profit maker. Just ask them to show you the invoice and it will tell you how much, if any, advertising is included in the invoice price.

[lsleelee]

Couldn't decide if it was better to resurrect a dead thread or start a duplicate thread, so I decided to resurrect.

To clarify this whole "is the $889 LMG/Advertising fee included in the invoice" "well there's more than one invoice" issues :

I've got MSRP of $35045 and Invoice of $32767 from Edmunds. Do these numbers include the LMG/Advertising fee?