Have We Solved The Steering Vibration On The Freeway?

[CadiJ]

fast400,

Glad to hear that the road force balance helped with your steering vibration. A LOT of CTS owners with the steering vibration have gotten some relief after RFB'ing their CTS.

My car has been RFB'ed and has absolutely no steering wheel vibration at all. The vibration my CTS has is in the drive train, when you apply power via the accelerator. GM has posted numerous PIP's about this issue and even came out with the latest parts -- the rear suspension washers to try and correct for the drive train issue -- unfortunately the parts that they put in my car last Friday made the problem (vibration) worse.

Originally Posted by fast400@me.com

Today I took my CTS to a tire shop here in Germany. The tech was very experienced and noted that they've had some newer Mercedes with the same problem most likely caused by the sensitivity of the electric/hydraulic steering. He rebalanced all four wheels to within 1gm. He said usually the machines note "ok" for 5gms or under. After having all four within 1gm.....what can I say...vibration gone!
He also used an adaptor which sits inside all 5 lugs, instead of using the center hole only while balancing. He said that this is the best way to simulate the tire being on the car.
I was intially thinking along the driveline, but maybe our steering is really sensitive to really precise balancing.
It's worth a shot to pay a tire tech an extra $20 to have him take out the amount of imbalance after the machine states "ok".

[Caddue]

Originally Posted by CadiJ

Hello Everyone!

Ok I was really hoping to deliver the silver bullet fix for the vibration issues so many of us are having with our CTS's between 40 MPH and 70 MPH.

I have been trying to get GM to fix my CTS since I picked it up in late November.

The new PIP that was just released for this issue instructs the dealer to install:
F2143 Carrier Assembly (complete) Rear Differential Replace. From my paperwork the part number looks to be:
20827776

From what I was told the regional cadillac engineer and district service manager were the two people who tended to my car.

Here is what I have to report:
It is WORSE

My shudder prior to the new part install was a "slow shudder" starting at 45/50mph. After the part install the shuddeer is now a "fast shudder" starting at 35mph and continues all the way up to at least 80mph as that's the fastest I got the car up to.

I don't understand how on earth the engineers didn't feel this as I felt it within 2 minutes of leaving the dealership.

NOTE: my paperwork states, "Rear axle mount insulators developed by GM engineering to enhance customer satisfaction were installed to ensure optimal performance..."

SO there we have it, the 2008/2009 CTS platform does in fact have a design/engineering/production flaw which contributes to NVH and for me a very noticeable shudder.

Such a shame, the CTS is a beautiful design but just not the car I thought it would be (for me...)

CadiJ,

Sorry to hear that this correction did not resolve your problem. Too bad. There are several things I would like to mention. Apparently GM must be afraid that they might have to buy your car back as they apparently are trying to mask the issue by the comments on your repair order about this being an enhancement to your car. That is a joke. Sorry to say but they are playing you for a fool. The bulletin which I am listing for you is the same one as before with the addition of the washers used. Unfortunately, you now must live with a decrease in your fuel economy. I question as to whether a GM engineer actually performed this bulletin to your car. It sounds to me like the dealer did this as per GM's request. Did you ever meet this engineer? Did you drive your car with him to confirm the problem?

Another thing that you mention is that the Service Manager shifted your car into neutral when the vibration occurred and it went away. This is interesting as my car continues the drone/vibrate when shifted into neutral. This tells me that my problem is in the driveshaft or rear differential. Your experience would lead me to believe that it is in the engine or transmission.

I think you need to request that this engineer drive the car with you present so you can verify your concern with him. This way you are not wasting your time by having the car returned to you the same way.

I become angry when I hear the current commercials Cadillac has promoting the CTS as a "World Class Car". GM continues to build and sell a defective designed vehicle as "World Class". Perhaps it is a desperate attempt to keep the company afloat while is lurks on the brink of bankruptcy?

Here is the bulletin that was performed on your car.


08-07-30-044A: Phasing Drone, Boom, Moan or Vibration at 80 km/h (50 mph) or 1000-1300 RPM with Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Engaged (Reprogram TCM and Install Insulator Washers [On Vehicles Built Without Washers]) - (Feb 11, 2009)
Subject:
Phasing Drone, Boom, Moan or Vibration at 80 km/h (50 mph) or 1000-1300 RPM with Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Engaged (Reprogram TCM and Install Insulator Washers [On Vehicles Built Without Washers])
Models: 2008-2009 Cadillac CTS
with 6L50 Automatic Transmission (RPO MYB)


This bulletin is being revised to update model years and add insulator washers (only for vehicles built without washers). Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-07-30-044 (Section 04 - Driveline/Axle).


Condition

Some customers may comment on a drone, boom, moan or vibration during light acceleration which phases in and out in intensity.
The condition may be most noticeable at about 80 km/h (50 mph), or 1000 - 1300 engine RPM, and occurs over a speed range of 5 to 8 km/h (3 to 5 mph).

Cause

This condition may be caused by the rear axle assembly responding to engine firing frequencies passed through the driveline when the torque converter clutch (TCC) is engaged.

Correction

For All Vehicles -- Calibration Update
This condition can be verified by driving the vehicle to duplicate the concern and using the Tech 2® to turn off the TCC. If the noise stops when the TCC is turned off, the calibration detailed below should help to eliminate the noise or vibration.
Important:
• This calibration may result in decreased fuel economy up to approximately one mpg/kpg. Because of this, the software should not be used in a vehicle without this concern.
• There are two calibration part numbers that are "selectable" for this controller. Read the description to determine the correct calibration for this condition.
• DO NOT replace rear drive axle or propshaft for this concern.
A revised calibration has been developed to correct this condition. Technicians are to reprogram the transmission control module (TCM) using SPS with the latest software available on TIS2WEB. Refer to the Service Programming System (SPS) procedures in SI. As always make sure your Tech 2® is updated with the latest software version.
For Vehicles Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 90159377 - Install Insulator Washers After Reprogramming
1. Raise and suitably support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in SI.
2. Place a transmission jack stand under the rear differential assembly.


3. Remove the two front differential mounting bolts


4. Install the rubber insulators (2), GM P/N 20827776, between the rear drive axle and the body
5. Install the rear differential mounting bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the rear differential mounting bolt (1) to 220 N•m(162 lb ft).
6. Remove the transmission jack stand.
7. Remove the support and lower the vehicle.

Parts Information

Part Number Description Qty
20827776 INSULATOR ASM - DIFF CARR 2

Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation Description Labor Time
K9532* Transmission Control Module Transmission Reprogramming with SPS 0.4 hr
Add Install Rubber Insulators in Rear Differential 0.3 hr
*This is a unique labor operation for bulletin use only. It will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
© 2009 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.

[CadiJ]

Thank you Caddue for your post and this information I bet it will be VERY helpful for everyone.

YES I KNOW that GM is jerking me around. GM had 3 chances to fix my car. I filed my defect notice giving them one more chance -- and they made it worse... On Friday, I filed my lemon law paperwork and am NOT driving my CTS. Thankfully I have 2nd car to drive...

This "FIX" really screwed up the car in my opinion. The off the line performance is absolutely horrific now, in fact it feels like my car lost about 50HP I am sure this has something to do with the re-programming... Seeing GM put in print (in the PIP you provided) that this reprogram will impact MPG's is unreal. So they are marketing and selling a car with MPG's that are untrue (if they reprogram) NICE!

My vibration is worse and all in all this Cadillac experience has been a total waste of time and money. I was so caught up in the Cadillac's design and the fact that this was my 1st Domestic car ever and that I was supporting an American corporation for a change --- lesson learned for me.

Regarding the district manager tending to my car, all I can do is take my service manager's word for what it is. I don't have the time or energy at this point to baby-sit and since I have already filed my lemon law paperwork I am just going to sit back and let the process work... Under every letter of the state law Cadillac is in the wrong so they can buy this piece of crap back from me (sorry everyone just venting here) and then they can deal with it...

I feel really bad for all the forum members who are PM'ing me and saying they too have this problem and GM and their dealership won't even give them paperwork which is what they need to file a claim. To say that a vibration is normal on a car like the CTS is UNREAL?! This is truly a class action situation...

Originally Posted by Caddue

CadiJ,

Sorry to hear that this correction did not resolve your problem. Too bad. There are several things I would like to mention. Apparently GM must be afraid that they might have to buy your car back as they apparently are trying to mask the issue by the comments on your repair order about this being an enhancement to your car. That is a joke. Sorry to say but they are playing you for a fool. The bulletin which I am listing for you is the same one as before with the addition of the washers used. Unfortunately, you now must live with a decrease in your fuel economy. I question as to whether a GM engineer actually performed this bulletin to your car. It sounds to me like the dealer did this as per GM's request. Did you ever meet this engineer? Did you drive your car with him to confirm the problem?

Another thing that you mention is that the Service Manager shifted your car into neutral when the vibration occurred and it went away. This is interesting as my car continues the drone/vibrate when shifted into neutral. This tells me that my problem is in the driveshaft or rear differential. Your experience would lead me to believe that it is in the engine or transmission.

I think you need to request that this engineer drive the car with you present so you can verify your concern with him. This way you are not wasting your time by having the car returned to you the same way.

I become angry when I hear the current commercials Cadillac has promoting the CTS as a "World Class Car". GM continues to build and sell a defective designed vehicle as "World Class". Perhaps it is a desperate attempt to keep the company afloat while is lurks on the brink of bankruptcy?

Here is the bulletin that was performed on your car.


08-07-30-044A: Phasing Drone, Boom, Moan or Vibration at 80 km/h (50 mph) or 1000-1300 RPM with Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Engaged (Reprogram TCM and Install Insulator Washers [On Vehicles Built Without Washers]) - (Feb 11, 2009)
Subject:
Phasing Drone, Boom, Moan or Vibration at 80 km/h (50 mph) or 1000-1300 RPM with Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Engaged (Reprogram TCM and Install Insulator Washers [On Vehicles Built Without Washers])
Models: 2008-2009 Cadillac CTS
with 6L50 Automatic Transmission (RPO MYB)


This bulletin is being revised to update model years and add insulator washers (only for vehicles built without washers). Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-07-30-044 (Section 04 - Driveline/Axle).


Condition

Some customers may comment on a drone, boom, moan or vibration during light acceleration which phases in and out in intensity.
The condition may be most noticeable at about 80 km/h (50 mph), or 1000 - 1300 engine RPM, and occurs over a speed range of 5 to 8 km/h (3 to 5 mph).

Cause

This condition may be caused by the rear axle assembly responding to engine firing frequencies passed through the driveline when the torque converter clutch (TCC) is engaged.

Correction

For All Vehicles -- Calibration Update
This condition can be verified by driving the vehicle to duplicate the concern and using the Tech 2® to turn off the TCC. If the noise stops when the TCC is turned off, the calibration detailed below should help to eliminate the noise or vibration.
Important:
• This calibration may result in decreased fuel economy up to approximately one mpg/kpg. Because of this, the software should not be used in a vehicle without this concern.
• There are two calibration part numbers that are "selectable" for this controller. Read the description to determine the correct calibration for this condition.
• DO NOT replace rear drive axle or propshaft for this concern.
A revised calibration has been developed to correct this condition. Technicians are to reprogram the transmission control module (TCM) using SPS with the latest software available on TIS2WEB. Refer to the Service Programming System (SPS) procedures in SI. As always make sure your Tech 2® is updated with the latest software version.
For Vehicles Built Prior to VIN Breakpoint 90159377 - Install Insulator Washers After Reprogramming
1. Raise and suitably support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in SI.
2. Place a transmission jack stand under the rear differential assembly.


3. Remove the two front differential mounting bolts


4. Install the rubber insulators (2), GM P/N 20827776, between the rear drive axle and the body
5. Install the rear differential mounting bolt.
Tighten
Tighten the rear differential mounting bolt (1) to 220 N•m(162 lb ft).
6. Remove the transmission jack stand.
7. Remove the support and lower the vehicle.

Parts Information

Part Number Description Qty
20827776 INSULATOR ASM - DIFF CARR 2

Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation Description Labor Time
K9532* Transmission Control Module Transmission Reprogramming with SPS 0.4 hr
Add Install Rubber Insulators in Rear Differential 0.3 hr
*This is a unique labor operation for bulletin use only. It will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
© 2009 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.

[70eldo]

Do they actually have the same issue with the CTS-V?

[WNBAMiamiSol]

CadiJ - I know in Florida and New Jersey, the Lemon Law booklet MUST come inside every new car sold. In Florida, the dealership MUST explain it and has you sign that you were told about it when you take delivery of the car. IF someone asks you where to get the Lemon Law paperwork, have them Google their respective state's attorney general's website. I couldn't find my Lemon Law booklet and called the 1-800 number listed on Florida Attorney General's website. The nice gentleman working there not only sent me the replacement Lemon Law booklet, but also said he'd seen 99% of the cases legitimately filed go in favor of the consumer! Nice little fact in Florida!

[CadiJ]

Thanks for your note WNBAMiamiSol,

YES the FL process is really quite simple and I am so very thankful that the process is there to use in a situation like this.

CJ

Originally Posted by WNBAMiamiSol

CadiJ - I know in Florida and New Jersey, the Lemon Law booklet MUST come inside every new car sold. In Florida, the dealership MUST explain it and has you sign that you were told about it when you take delivery of the car. IF someone asks you where to get the Lemon Law paperwork, have them Google their respective state's attorney general's website. I couldn't find my Lemon Law booklet and called the 1-800 number listed on Florida Attorney General's website. The nice gentleman working there not only sent me the replacement Lemon Law booklet, but also said he'd seen 99% of the cases legitimately filed go in favor of the consumer! Nice little fact in Florida!

[Southern]

Originally Posted by fast400@me.com

Southern: It's not mounted to anything, except the rear axle. It's metal not rubber. Take a closer look. I'm not talking about the the pieces connected to the subframe here.

Nope. It's rubber. Mofex just crawled under there and checked.
He also noted that it is connected to the differential which leads me to believe that it is the differential bushing.
Hot RWD cars have a problem with wheel hop. The Differential bushing absorbs that energy and torque when a great amount of energy is directed to the differential and the tires don't want to slip. So this bushing keeps the wheel hop to a minimum. My Mustang had the same thing.

What does that mean?
Well it means that in normal driving at a constant speed this is a passive component and I don't think can ever cause a vibration or a droning sound.

I would imagine that if you look at a parts listing you will see this part described as a Differential bushing. Quite common for High HP RWD.
They probably had it on the older CTS' also.


Good try, though.

[fast400@me.com]

Southern:
Thanks for clearing up! Could of sworn that sucker looked like metal! Your info makes perfect sense. I was throwing wild guesses out there since it seems in 38 pages nobody's figured it out yet.

[Cadillac Tony]

The black rubber bushing attached to the rear differential is a harmonic dampener- it's designed to prevent the high pitched "ringing" whine that the first generation CTS differential was plagued with. Wheel hop bushings are installed between the subframe and chassis, and steering wheel vibrations are caused by front tires being out of balance, an out of round wheel or tire or an improperly centered wheel.

That bushing has nothing to do with steering wheel shake or wheel hop.

[rosemore]

Steering Wheel Vibration above 62 mph. My problem (2009 CTS DI - 18" Polished Aluminum wheels) seems to be limited to some type of vibration regardless whether or not the car is coasting or under power. Several attempts to change wheels and RFB tires has helped by reducing the shimmy but the vibration is persistent. Under 50 mph, there is no problem at all.

Has anyone investigated whether the problem could be due to a brake rotor out of balance?

[AJC]

Just about to purchase a 2009 FE1 CTS. I noticed there was a vibration in the steering wheel above 50 mph. Two years ago I purchase a 2007 Mustang GT and noticed a clunking noise coming from the front suspension after 35 mph. The Mustang forum had a post just like this one where many owners were having this issue. I took the Mustang back to the dealer and they said they could not fix it. I told them to give me my money back & my 2006 Honda civic that I traded. The dealer gave me my civic and money back. Wow now I am about to have the same issue with the CTS. I have 38K on my civic and no issues at all. I am trying to buy American BUT they cannot produce a quality car. This is why they are all going out of business. I think I will keep my civic. It's a shame because I was getting a great deal on the 2009 CTS.

[Caddue]

Originally Posted by AJC

Just about to purchase a 2009 FE1 CTS. I noticed there was a vibration in the steering wheel above 50 mph. Two years ago I purchase a 2007 Mustang GT and noticed a clunking noise coming from the front suspension after 35 mph. The Mustang forum had a post just like this one where many owners were having this issue. I took the Mustang back to the dealer and they said they could not fix it. I told them to give me my money back & my 2006 Honda civic that I traded. The dealer gave me my civic and money back. Wow now I am about to have the same issue with the CTS. I have 38K on my civic and no issues at all. I am trying to buy American BUT they cannot produce a quality car. This is why they are all going out of business. I think I will keep my civic. It's a shame because I was getting a great deal on the 2009 CTS.

HELLO GM/CADILLAC...Are you listening? You just lost another customer. You need to fix the various ongoing drone & vibration problems with the CTS. If not, the writing is on the wall for you.

[waffleman]

Actually, it's not one lost customer, but TWO. Last year, I was set to buy the BMW 3 Series while I lived in Germany, then saw the 09CTS and got all excited. and decided to wait and get a CTS once back here. I was about to pull the trigger and decided to do a little bit more research on reliability first, and fell into this forum. The issues I am reading about are quite concerning to me as it appears to be a common issue. The last thing I want to do when I purchase a new car is go back and forth to the dealership to get things fixed. I'll stick with my 2005 Ford Freestyle which has been trouble free for now and continue on my search for the ultimate vehicle. Maybe an Acura? Argh....darn it GM...why can't you make good, reliable cars???

One of the threat notes the issue is with the "first generation" transmission. Does that mean the later built CTS have no issues anymore?

[Caddue]

Originally Posted by waffleman

Actually, it's not one lost customer, but TWO. Last year, I was set to buy the BMW 3 Series while I lived in Germany, then saw the 09CTS and got all excited. and decided to wait and get a CTS once back here. I was about to pull the trigger and decided to do a little bit more research on reliability first, and fell into this forum. The issues I am reading about are quite concerning to me as it appears to be a common issue. The last thing I want to do when I purchase a new car is go back and forth to the dealership to get things fixed. I'll stick with my 2005 Ford Freestyle which has been trouble free for now and continue on my search for the ultimate vehicle. Maybe an Acura? Argh....darn it GM...why can't you make good, reliable cars???

One of the threat notes the issue is with the "first generation" transmission. Does that mean the later built CTS have no issues anymore?

The drone/vibration problem continues from the 08 to the 09 CTS. Cadillac has issued bulletins to correct the problem that DON'T WORK. The problems continue continue to occur on a car that you drive off the lot today. Apparently, they are aware of the problem and continue to sell defective cars. My prediction is if GM is still around when the 2010 model comes out, you are going to see some significant changes to the driveline and suspension.

[calcustom]

Originally Posted by AJC

Just about to purchase a 2009 FE1 CTS. I noticed there was a vibration in the steering wheel above 50 mph. Two years ago I purchase a 2007 Mustang GT and noticed a clunking noise coming from the front suspension after 35 mph. The Mustang forum had a post just like this one where many owners were having this issue. I took the Mustang back to the dealer and they said they could not fix it. I told them to give me my money back & my 2006 Honda civic that I traded. The dealer gave me my civic and money back. Wow now I am about to have the same issue with the CTS. I have 38K on my civic and no issues at all. I am trying to buy American BUT they cannot produce a quality car. This is why they are all going out of business. I think I will keep my civic. It's a shame because I was getting a great deal on the 2009 CTS.

Keep in mind although some folks report problems it is not the majority of owners having these problems. In any forum you are going to see some problems reported. Overall how many forum members are there vs. how many post problems. The number of positive experiences far outweigh the negatives.