Have We Solved The Steering Vibration On The Freeway?

[Dicecal]

Originally Posted by CadiJ

Hello All!

Well... I have a post that is going to get this forum all fired up - regarding the CTS "vibration issue."

I am a car guy so I know my stuff & I now have had enough time with my CTS, my dealer, and GM so I feel that I am a very informed consumer - lots of detail will be coming your way...

I just got my 2009 3.6di automatic (18" polished NON AWD) back from my dealer and it is clear that the 2008-2009 CTS platform has at least 3 possible vibration issues.

Note: This is my 2nd 2009 Cadillac CTS 3.6 DI. My first one was a June/July production. My current CTS is a October production... The first one also had a major vibration issue that's why I have my current CTS...

I will go into detail and type up what I know later this evening or tomorrow - it is not pretty and I will not be able to solve any problems for myself or any of you -- BUT -- I will hopefully provide several insights that will be helpful to the forum members when trying to "solve" or shall I say identify the vibration problem (s).

We are all ears....what do ya know?

[CadiJ]

Hello Everyone, sorry for the delay but to be completely honest I am sick and tired of dedicating any more energy to this issue. This being said, I think this information and my learning's will be valuable for our forum members.

I'll try to answer questions should you have any but I would not like this to be a debate should you not agree with the words I use or my final position on the CTS. Please be reasonable as you read my experience with my CTSs.

As we know a tremendous amount of forum members have reported "vibration" problems with their 2008 and 2009 CTS's. This thread - all 34 pages of it (and growing) - does a great job of capturing three (3) distinct - separate - but interrelated issues with the CTS platform. We can disagree on the semantics or official words used (i.e. shudder, vibration, shimmy, shake) however, I'll do my best to describe how I and the service managers who have/are working on my 2009 CTSs define the problems that are occurring on the CTS platform.

1.) Steering wheel oscillation - occurs at freeway speeds (50mph+) this is when you are driving on the highway and your steering wheel "shakes" this is due to the tires being out of balance, a tire being defective (out of round) or a wheel being out of round. You can also have a vibration associated with this issue. This being said, what I am told by service mangers and as reported on this forum, the tires on the CTS are extremely sensitive, they are prone to flat spotting (more so than other high performance tires) and -- here is the most frustrating part -- the tires are prone to go out of balance anywhere from 2,000 - 5,000 miles and the only way to get them rebalanced is to find someone who really knows what they are doing with a road force balance machine. Simple fix for Cadillac is ditch the tires sourced on the CTS and go with something more consistent (with equal or better performance) that will cut down on the customer complaints. I am talking specifically the 18" polished wheel/tire package.

2.) Vibration/Drone/Whooping/Whooshing/Rumble - this issue is typically hidden by the issue mentioned above. On my 1st 2009 CTS (June/July production) I was able to get the steering wheel oscillation under control only to be confronted with the "drone" issue - that’s when I returned my 1st CTS for my current CTS (Oct. production). This issue is discussed in this thread and ALSO has its own thread that expands upon the problem here:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...noise-b-t.html

There is also a PIP that GM published PIP 4435B published in September 5, 2008 however, what I was told again this week by my service manager & Cadillac customer service is that they do not wish to perform the "fix" as recommended in the PIP because, here we go, and this really inspires confidence in the CTS platform… "Cadillac is aware of the issue and is trying to engineer a more specific fix for this problem…" Some owners have reported that the reindex "Almost solves 90%" of this issue…" making it tolerable…" while other owners are reporting that this issue -- if their prop shaft is reindexed -- comes back in a few thousand miles… For me I do hear a rumble and "boom" from the middle and rear of my CTS it sounds as though I have a aftermarket bass module (sub woofer) in my trunk which I do not...

3.) The most complex of problems that I truly believe GM has absolutely no fix for is: Drive train shudder/miss/stumble/vibration. This is a distinct problem but resides back to the issue that the CTS truly has some sort of platform drive train issue. This problem occurs at every speed, typically occurring when you accelerate up to speed and are in your final gear. If you lightly accelerate -- you get a "chugging" or missing shudder/vibration. My service manager had a heck of a time finding this issue on his own but I am able to duplicate it every time I drive the vehicle and believe me it is very noticeable. Here is the catch -- yet again -- per GM -- they know all about it… In fact, off the record, GM said, "Most people are unable to realize this is a vibration issue IF they live up north and are driving on bumpy or rough roads as rough roads mask this issue…" I live in S. FL and luckily we have miles and miles of smooth roads - on which I am able to feel the shudder of my brand new CTS each and every time I drive…

So where did Cadillac leave me? Cadillac said, "We need at least three weeks to crunch data on your vehicle…" WHAT???! What data I asked, "Did you download data from my vehicle?" (they did not)… This is ridiculous. Cadillac has known about this issue since the 2nd generation CTS launched, going on 2 years now…

Let me end by saying this. I love the Cadillac CTS. This is my 1st Cadillac, my first ever domestic vehicle. I have always driven imports typically BMW's. I think the CTS is by far the most beautiful car on the road. I love the interior fit out, the contenting, the steering, braking, radio, the way the heated seats get so nice and hot (I know I live in FL) and the way they cool down SO VERY fast. I love the Nav system and love the keyless. Last but not least I love the absolutely amazing 3.6di engine.

What I absolutely can't stand is driving my CTS and ALWAYS having a nagging vibration, and a booming drone/rumble sound… Trust me Cadillac, the vibration and drive train noise is NOT classy… All my friends drive imports and when we go out to dinner and the car shudders, I get embarrassed and my passengers, who could be potential CTS customers, realize something is wrong with my car - not to mention this is my 2nd CTS in 3 months.

My service manager who is doing everything he can said, "Yes there is something wrong with the CTS platform causing this vibration and GM knows all about it however, most people are just living with it…"

It is a shame… Cadillac is 98% of the way there but when you cut corners and you keep producing vehicles with a flaw, you are doing more harm to the brand than good ESPECIALLY when you attract new customers to Cadillac from import brands.

In closing after owning 2 CTS's in 3 months and after observing numerous posts of vibration problems and having to put up with a very noticeable vibration, I am unable to enjoy driving my 2009 CTS. Even though the CTS is a beautifully designed vehicle I guess its just not for me as I am not willing to "put up with it..." I will most likely head back to BMW which makes me sad for Cadillac and GM as I truly wanted to buy domestic given the state of our nation and to support American workers.

[omegafiler]

Wow, that's a lot of text CadiJ. I didn't read all of it, but what I did read, I agree with 100%!

Except I've owned nothing but domestics (GM actually) for over a decade. They've all had serious build quality and fit/finish issues. But if these far more serious issues (ie. Drone/Vibration) aren't resolved with the CTS very soon, I'm afraid it'll be my last GM vehicle.

Hey, we're only human. We can only take so much "torture" from our vehicles.

[rover73]

It is a lot of text but, very helpful. Thanks!

[08lava]

Thanks CadiJ for the info...

Hate to say it but it happened to me today driving home from work, Only 1450 miles on the car since I bought it in September..

I was hoping I was one of the "lucky" ones but I guess not because it never did before.

Other than that, the car is wonderful, no roof issues, console creaks or rattles... sure beats the 98 gt mustang I traded in..( it only had 30k miles ). it had a bad vibration issue also... Ford (I know, taboo word here) tried to tell me it was due to the tight suspension.... what a crock..

But mine could be due to the car "sits" for most of the week... I will post if I find out anything new..

[rover73]

08lava,

Consider yourself lucky. Since about 200 miles on our CTS, we have had the vibration with our 2009 and it is there every time we drive the car. Keep us posted!

[The Drakester]

Originally Posted by rover73

08lava,

Consider yourself lucky. Since about 200 miles on our CTS, we have had the vibration with our 2009 and it is there every time we drive the car. Keep us posted!

Have you had the wheels balanced? My 2009 had a vibration between 62 and 70 and a balance job on a Hunter 9600 (Road Force) cured that issue.

[fasttigger]

Hi, my car had the vibration when driving over 50 mph.... I had my tires balanced and still got the vibration.

Before taking the car in for another balancing, I inflated the tires to 35 psi cold. Problem solved!

I'm now convinced that many of us having the problem of the shimmy is because tire pressure problems. Having the tires underinflated, makes the tires prone to flat spots especially in cold weather. I'd suggest you all to try to calibrate correctly the tires. Our car's suspension is designed to have a low profile tires with 35 psi.

Another side effect to having the tires to the correct psi is that I noticed an increment of mpg, about 15% more than having 32 psi....

Just my 2 pesos...

Best regards from Mexico....

[CTSVirgin]

I'm new to the forum today and can't beleive all the problems with the steeringwheel shimmy. I have 09 di with only 2 thousand miles, it has shimmied since day one, the dealer has rebalenced the tires 3 times. It goes back on Friday for another try. This time I will not take it home until it's fixed. The info on the forum wil give me alot amo.

[jdavis12]

I'm glad this post got fired back up and great to see new owners adding their input. No question, Cadillac needs to take notice as regardless of whether it's a 100% tire issue (Michelin problem) or combination of factors, there are MANY disgruntled owners who love the CTS, paid dearly for it and are living with an unacceptable issue.
I am on my 2nd CTS as well - Had an '08 FE1 with 17's that always had the shimmy and after over a year of working with the dealer, they ran out of options. Worked a deal where I didn't lose my pants and am now in an '09 DI w/ FE2 and 18's. Day 1 the new one was smooth, day 2 started the shimmy at 60 mph. Roadforce was way out on 3 tires which had to be replaced - this improved the problem but still get extreme flat spotting most days that takes 15+ miles to run out - by that time, I'm at work and the drive is over.
Keep the pressure on Cadillac - something has to be done about this!

[CadiJ]

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for the feedback. I just want to take a moment to let everyone know that I do not have any tire shimmy on my current CTS, the tires have been RFB'ed and are fine.

My 1st CTS had insane steering wheel oscillation most likely due to the out of spec tire (s) or wheel. It also had the drone.

My current CTS (2009), the steering wheel is rock solid no oscillation at all however, on this CTS, I have problems #2 (Drone vibration) and #3 (vibration/shudder under acceleration) from my initial post above. My issue #3 continues to get much worse and I am currently just shy of 3k miles...

[2laidback]

I know this is one long thread. However if it is a tire problem does anyone have any positive input as to what brand tire etc. we should look at to solve this problem ? I have driven 08's and 9's and i feel the vibe. It really smacks when my cheap Chevy trailblazer is smooth as ...... going through a hot tin horn.

[CadiJ]

The tire vibration is only one piece in the CTS vibration issue. I absolutely agree with you, better tires would solve most CTS owner's problems.

My hunch - once the tire vibration is fixed CTS owners would then really feel the driveline issues. My first CTS (June production) had the tire vibration issue and I could not feel the driveline vibration/shudder until the tires were R.F.B.'ed... Once the tire issue was fixed, I could really hear/feel the drone and shudder.

Perhaps Cadillac is keeping the tires as they are - so as NOT to highlight a possible production flaw with the drivline of the 2008-2009 CTS's as it is much easier to place blame with a tire supplier

Originally Posted by 2laidback

I know this is one long thread. However if it is a tire problem does anyone have any positive input as to what brand tire etc. we should look at to solve this problem ? I have driven 08's and 9's and i feel the vibe. It really smacks when my cheap Chevy trailblazer is smooth as ...... going through a hot tin horn.

[Mr Snappy]

Since there are some new people on here, let me give you a piece of advice for the steering wheel issue....not the drivetrain vibration, that is a different animal that I thankfully do not have. If you steering wheel is shaking, especially around 50mph or 70mph, do yourself a favor, take your car and get it road-force balanced AT A PLACE THAT IS NOT YOUR DEALERSHIP !!!. My dealer either lied or are incompetent because they claimed they road-force balanced my 2008 and that they fixed the problem. Of course, it didn't, it just changed the MPH that the problem appeared. To be fair, each of the 4 times they balanced it, it improved, but not completely. Once I took it to Firestone and paid $75, the problem was fixed....and they printed me a letter to the dealer telling them that my passenger-rear tire was defective and needed to be replaced. My CTS was balanced a total of 6 times and I had to replace 2 of the factory tires to get the dumb thing right.

Now its pure heaven.

[Caddue]

Originally Posted by CadiJ

Hello Everyone, sorry for the delay but to be completely honest I am sick and tired of dedicating any more energy to this issue. This being said, I think this information and my learning's will be valuable for our forum members.

I'll try to answer questions should you have any but I would not like this to be a debate should you not agree with the words I use or my final position on the CTS. Please be reasonable as you read my experience with my CTSs.

As we know a tremendous amount of forum members have reported "vibration" problems with their 2008 and 2009 CTS's. This thread - all 34 pages of it (and growing) - does a great job of capturing three (3) distinct - separate - but interrelated issues with the CTS platform. We can disagree on the semantics or official words used (i.e. shudder, vibration, shimmy, shake) however, I'll do my best to describe how I and the service managers who have/are working on my 2009 CTSs define the problems that are occurring on the CTS platform.

1.) Steering wheel oscillation - occurs at freeway speeds (50mph+) this is when you are driving on the highway and your steering wheel "shakes" this is due to the tires being out of balance, a tire being defective (out of round) or a wheel being out of round. You can also have a vibration associated with this issue. This being said, what I am told by service mangers and as reported on this forum, the tires on the CTS are extremely sensitive, they are prone to flat spotting (more so than other high performance tires) and -- here is the most frustrating part -- the tires are prone to go out of balance anywhere from 2,000 - 5,000 miles and the only way to get them rebalanced is to find someone who really knows what they are doing with a road force balance machine. Simple fix for Cadillac is ditch the tires sourced on the CTS and go with something more consistent (with equal or better performance) that will cut down on the customer complaints. I am talking specifically the 18" polished wheel/tire package.

2.) Vibration/Drone/Whooping/Whooshing/Rumble - this issue is typically hidden by the issue mentioned above. On my 1st 2009 CTS (June/July production) I was able to get the steering wheel oscillation under control only to be confronted with the "drone" issue - that’s when I returned my 1st CTS for my current CTS (Oct. production). This issue is discussed in this thread and ALSO has its own thread that expands upon the problem here:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...noise-b-t.html

There is also a PIP that GM published PIP 4435B published in September 5, 2008 however, what I was told again this week by my service manager & Cadillac customer service is that they do not wish to perform the "fix" as recommended in the PIP because, here we go, and this really inspires confidence in the CTS platform… "Cadillac is aware of the issue and is trying to engineer a more specific fix for this problem…" Some owners have reported that the reindex "Almost solves 90%" of this issue…" making it tolerable…" while other owners are reporting that this issue -- if their prop shaft is reindexed -- comes back in a few thousand miles… For me I do hear a rumble and "boom" from the middle and rear of my CTS it sounds as though I have a aftermarket bass module (sub woofer) in my trunk which I do not...

3.) The most complex of problems that I truly believe GM has absolutely no fix for is: Drive train shudder/miss/stumble/vibration. This is a distinct problem but resides back to the issue that the CTS truly has some sort of platform drive train issue. This problem occurs at every speed, typically occurring when you accelerate up to speed and are in your final gear. If you lightly accelerate -- you get a "chugging" or missing shudder/vibration. My service manager had a heck of a time finding this issue on his own but I am able to duplicate it every time I drive the vehicle and believe me it is very noticeable. Here is the catch -- yet again -- per GM -- they know all about it… In fact, off the record, GM said, "Most people are unable to realize this is a vibration issue IF they live up north and are driving on bumpy or rough roads as rough roads mask this issue…" I live in S. FL and luckily we have miles and miles of smooth roads - on which I am able to feel the shudder of my brand new CTS each and every time I drive…

So where did Cadillac leave me? Cadillac said, "We need at least three weeks to crunch data on your vehicle…" WHAT???! What data I asked, "Did you download data from my vehicle?" (they did not)… This is ridiculous. Cadillac has known about this issue since the 2nd generation CTS launched, going on 2 years now…

Let me end by saying this. I love the Cadillac CTS. This is my 1st Cadillac, my first ever domestic vehicle. I have always driven imports typically BMW's. I think the CTS is by far the most beautiful car on the road. I love the interior fit out, the contenting, the steering, braking, radio, the way the heated seats get so nice and hot (I know I live in FL) and the way they cool down SO VERY fast. I love the Nav system and love the keyless. Last but not least I love the absolutely amazing 3.6di engine.

What I absolutely can't stand is driving my CTS and ALWAYS having a nagging vibration, and a booming drone/rumble sound… Trust me Cadillac, the vibration and drive train noise is NOT classy… All my friends drive imports and when we go out to dinner and the car shudders, I get embarrassed and my passengers, who could be potential CTS customers, realize something is wrong with my car - not to mention this is my 2nd CTS in 3 months.

My service manager who is doing everything he can said, "Yes there is something wrong with the CTS platform causing this vibration and GM knows all about it however, most people are just living with it…"

It is a shame… Cadillac is 98% of the way there but when you cut corners and you keep producing vehicles with a flaw, you are doing more harm to the brand than good ESPECIALLY when you attract new customers to Cadillac from import brands.

In closing after owning 2 CTS's in 3 months and after observing numerous posts of vibration problems and having to put up with a very noticeable vibration, I am unable to enjoy driving my 2009 CTS. Even though the CTS is a beautifully designed vehicle I guess its just not for me as I am not willing to "put up with it..." I will most likely head back to BMW which makes me sad for Cadillac and GM as I truly wanted to buy domestic given the state of our nation and to support American workers.

CadiJ,

I have posted on this thread and others numerous times discussing my experience with the drone/vibration issue which you list as #2 &#3. I believe that BOTH are related and if you have one, then you also have the other.

I have been living with this problem since my car had 700 miles. Nothing that was done correct the condition. Replacement & re-indexing the driveshaft just made it intermittent now. It is UNBELIEVABLE to think that after having my car for almost 1 1/2 years, Cadillac is unable to fix the problem. What is even more UNBELIEVABLE, is that they continue to produce a car that they brag about so much with such an unacceptable flaw. Obviously being aware of the vibration problems with the CTS, they apparently don't care. The bulletin you mention was first published in July 08 and was updated in 9/08. It is now 1/09 and they still haven't been able to come up with a acceptable fix. GIVE ME A &^%$^*&(& BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

For those of you that have this problem, tell your dealer and Cadillac to also check bulletin PIP4444A which is part of problems 2 & 3.

If I weren't leasing my CTS, I would have gotten it bought back and moved on but am stuck at this point. I can only hope that if they continue to buy back cars and the media gets involved, they will get off their asses and fix the problem.