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2008-2013 Cadillac CTS Performance Mods Discussion, Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer in Cadillac CTS Second Generation Forum - 2008-2013; I was wrong in saying I thought you may have been played......just the anger. And yes, he has repeadiatley called ...
  1. #61
    SC2150's Avatar
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    I was wrong in saying I thought you may have been played......just the anger. And yes, he has repeadiatley called me all those and has entered most every thread to discredit, his wrods may have been not exactley it, but the meaning is clear when he claims he is "saving others from me profiting from them".

    And I think he is really the only one that wont quit so it gets me on the defensive and I have no beef against you.

    Just would like him to stick with what he has done in the past to benefit members and drop his hate campaign against me.


  2. #62
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    And here is more data directly from GM on the subject:


    Engnineering Systems


    Cadillac Owners Member


    Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2


    Re: How to Clean The PCV tube on 05' CTS 3.6



    I usually lurk in the background, but this is getting out of hand. SC2150 has the up-most knowledge on this matter and I have personally been to his shop and inspected engines both with and without catch cans. It is in fact a fact that without fuel spraying on the valve stems that they will in fact lose efficiency and need cleaning, this is published by GM.


    Service Information
    Home Publications Number Search New Bulletins Bulletin Search Feedback Help
    2011 Cadillac CTS | CTS VIN D Service Manual | Document ID: 2863222
    #PIP5029: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves - (May 29, 2012)
    Subject: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves

    Models: 2008 - 2012 Cadillac CTS, STS
    2008 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS
    2007 - 2010 Pontiac Solstice GXP
    2007 - 2010 Saturn Sky Redline
    2009 - 2012 Buick Enclave
    2009 - 2012 Buick Lacrosse
    2009 - 2012 Chevrolet Traverse
    2009 - 2012 GMC Acadia
    2009 Saturn Outlook
    2010 - 2012 Cadillac SRX
    2010 - 2012 Chevrolet Camaro, Equinox
    2010 - 2012 GMC Terrain
    With any of the Following Direct Injected Gasoline Engines:
    2.0 (RPO LNF)
    2.4L (RPO LAF, LEA, or LUK)
    2.8L (RPO LAU)
    3.0L (RPO LF1)
    3.6L (RPO LFX or LLT)

    The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
    Condition/Concern:

    Some customers may complain of a MIL and engine misfire. In some cases, the misfire may be more apparent on a cold start, may count on a single cylinder or several cylinders, and may or may not be felt by the driver. Upon inspection, the technician will find one or more misfire codes (DTC P0300-P0306) stored in the ECM and SI diagnosis may or may not isolate the cause of the misfire depending on whether the intake/exhaust valves are sticking at the time of the diagnosis.

    This may be the result of major carbon build up on the intake and/or exhaust valves as shown below so the misfires should not have appeared until the engine has accumulated around 5,000 miles or more.





    .







    Recommendation/Instructions:

    If this concern is encountered, perform SI diagnosis. If SI diagnosis isolates a valve sealing concern and/or eliminates everything else external to the engine, decarbon the engine with Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner by following the guidelines below:

    Important Extreme care must be taken not to hydrolock the engine when inducing the cleaner, especially if it is induced without Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A. If too much cleaner is induced at too low of a RPM, or if you force the engine to stall by inducing too much cleaner at once, the engine may hydrolock and bend a connecting rod(s).
    1. In a well-ventilated area with the engine at operating temperature, slowly/carefully induce a bottle of GM Upper Engine and Fuel Injection Cleaner into the engine with RPM off of idle enough to prevent it from stalling (typically around 2,000 RPM or so). Depending on the engine configuration, induce the cleaner through the throttle body or an engine vacuum hose/pipe. For best results, it is suggested to induce the cleaner with Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A (shown below).
    2. Turn the engine off after inducing the cleaner and allow the cleaner to soak with the engine off for 2.5 to 3 hours (Do not let cleaner soak for more than 3 hours as remaining deposits may start to harden back up again).
    3. Add a bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment Plus to the fuel tank and fill the vehicle with one of the Top Tier gasolines listed at http://www.toptiergas.com and/or in the latest version of 04-06-04-047 (USA) or 05-06-04-022 (Canada). See Bulletin 05-00-89-078 for more details on GM Fuel System Treatment Plus.
    4. Test drive the vehicle extensively to circulate the GM Fuel System Treatment Plus, which will help to eliminate/reduce any remaining intake valve deposits.
    5. Re-evaluate the concern to determine if it is repaired or improved at all. If the concern is improved but not repaired, it may be necessary to perform the above decarboning process a 2nd time.



    6. To complete the repairs, advise the customer to only use one of the Top Tier Gasolines listed at http://www.toptiergas.com and/or in the latest version of 04-06-04-047 (USA) or 05-06-04-022 (Canada) to minimize future deposits. It can also be recommended to add a bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment Plus at every oil change as mentioned in the latest version of 04-06-04-051.
    Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A
    Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner

    Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

    GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.


    WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
    © 2012 General Motors. All rights reserved.

    By utilizing the catch can you will reduce to eliminate most of the deposits that build up on the valve stems, I have had one on my engine now for quite a while and using a bore light I have seen very little to no build up, and especially I have not had to have this costly cleaning done. If I had not had this catch can I would have spent over twice the cost for upper induction cleanings. I am in the Industry and see the added benefit of using this system. SO before you try and dis-credit SC2150 you better have a lot more than your un-proven opinion and back up your shortcomings with real world facts.

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    |
    Frosty1300 and Frosty1300 like this.

  3. #63
    HurstGN is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
    And here is more data directly from GM on the subject:


    2011 Cadillac CTS | CTS VIN D Service Manual | Document ID: 2863222
    #PIP5029: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves - (May 29, 2012)
    Subject: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves

    Models: 2008 - 2012 Cadillac CTS, STS
    With any of the Following Direct Injected Gasoline Engines:
    3.6L (RPO LFX or LLT)

    The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
    Condition/Concern:

    Some customers may complain of a MIL and engine misfire. In some cases, the misfire may be more apparent on a cold start, may count on a single cylinder or several cylinders, and may or may not be felt by the driver. Upon inspection, the technician will find one or more misfire codes (DTC P0300-P0306) stored in the ECM and SI diagnosis may or may not isolate the cause of the misfire depending on whether the intake/exhaust valves are sticking at the time of the diagnosis.

    This may be the result of major carbon build up on the intake and/or exhaust valves as shown below so the misfires should not have appeared until the engine has accumulated around 5,000 miles or more.


    |
    OK, so GM is recommending this service for the direct injected engines. I'm looking at this and thinking about my 3.6 DI. If I have carbon deposits on the valves, this can't be from my fuel since the fuel is injected after the valves. So this must be from the oil in the intake, correct? If that's the case, then, yes, the catch can should help alleviate this problem. I can see the logic so far. But how would Top Tier gas help anything? I'm thinking Top Tier gas would only affect the combustion chamber, and possible carbon hot spots in the combustion chamber. If there are hot spots, I'd see a detonation (pre-ignition) knock, correct?

    Basically I'm trying to see the logic to the bulletin pointing at the gas as the problem when it looks obvious that problem is the oil in the intake.

  4. #64
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    The top tier fuel in a DI motor is not going to help the deposits at all as it never touches the intake side of the valves where these deposits form. On a non-DI the fuel additives work quite well.

    On a DI motor, the fuel is not introduced until well into the compression stroke when the intake valves have long closed, and it is in the combustion chamber only milleseconds before the explosion and it does little to keep any of it clean as you can see on the pistons below in 8k miles....just where it is introduced does it help keep deposits from forming, but the high CR of the DI motors (Mazda just rekeased one w.13:1!!!) and the ultra high pressure of the fuel spray very little deposits form on the piston tops....only in the combustion chamber of the cylinder head.....but the valves are a different story.

    The oil ingestion is what causes these and the throttle body buildup. If you separate and trap the oil before it ingests into the intake air charge there is nothing passing the valves or reversion coating the TB bore and blade so you will never have to have them cleaned.

    The biggest issue is the build-up occurs rapidly with DI motors....here are pictures from relatively low mileage motors (8k miles on the first one):



    and take a few minutes to pull your plenum cover off to see just how much oil is being ingested by these motors...and it is ALL of them:



    Below is from a LY7 w/app 60k miles on it....the fuel helps slow the deposits, but not on a DI motor:


    Now here are the pictures from the GM service bulliten above:






    So, if your car is new, install a GOOD catchcan (most let as much oil through as they catch) and you prevent this from ever happening, and besides the gunk buildup, you will see more power and better fuel economy (1-3 mpg avg) as you have prevented the detonation that the oil causes and thus the ECU is not pulling timing to protect the pistons from damage.

    The picture below shows a IM on the left from a car brought right from the dealer to the shop and the RX catchcan and breather kit installed, the one on the right with similar miles (both between 8 & 10k miles) without one:




    Want to view all the pictures on our photobucket page? : http://photobucket.com/revx1
    CTS_ likes this.

  5. #65
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    Wow!

  6. #66
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    If I remove the upper part of the intake to perform an inspection such as this, do I need to buy a new gasket? Or is this a reusable gasket?

  7. #67
    Michael_atDell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HurstGN
    If I remove the upper part of the intake to perform an inspection such as this, do I need to buy a new gasket? Or is this a reusable gasket?
    It's reusable.

  8. #68
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_atDell View Post
    It's reusable.
    Thank You. I've got to dig in there and see just how much carbon gunk I got on the valves.

  9. #69
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    You can feed a boroscope right down one of the runners and see the valves.


  10. #70
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
    You can feed a boroscope right down one of the runners and see the valves.

    Tracy, what is a good way to remove deposits like that once they have built up? Seafoam? If so, would it have to be sucked into the intake through the "sipping" method?

  11. #71
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    Yes. Seafoam or BG has a good product, and the "sip" method so you dont introduce to much at a time. We are removing heads to manually clean these.

  12. #72
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    Bottom Line on the Ice O Lator. Does it work? Review from anyone? I'm in 08 direct inject. Want to buy this if it works.

  13. #73
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    Several thousand sold and installed and nothing but praise.....not a single return and we offer 100% refund if not as advertised.

    Here is a tuner shop in Utah that did before and after testing of the CNC throttle body and the Iceolator:

    http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...light=VMax+JDP

    And the dyno graphs:

    http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=188053&page=2

  14. #74
    Mike B is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Which BG product do you mean?
    I found the BG products here in Sweden but I havn't been able to find the Seafoam.

  15. #75
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    Re: Product reivew: The Black Ice-Olater by VMax - Intake Phenolic Spacer

    BG upper induction cleaning. Probably the best of the ones we use.

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