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2008-2013 Cadillac CTS Performance Mods Discussion, Nitrogen Tire Fill in Cadillac CTS Second Generation Forum - 2008-2013; Originally Posted by marktanner Try it for yourself before you condemn it. I added air to my Michelin tires last ...
  1. #16
    928S is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Quote Originally Posted by marktanner View Post
    Try it for yourself before you condemn it.
    I added air to my Michelin tires last winter, and since have bled air as the ambient outside temperature rose. When seasonal cold weather returns, I'll need to add air again. In my daily driving routine, tire pressure rises about 2-4 lbs average and about 4-6 lbs max in hottest weather conditions. No hassle, no problem.

    If I switch to nitrogen, then perhaps I would need to add a fraction of a pound less in cold weather; and in daily driving, the friction/heat pressure rise would be somewhat less. That's it? Much ado about nothing, in my opinion.

    Okay. Maybe I need to try nitrogen for myself because, otherwise, I don't "get it."

  2. #17
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Quote Originally Posted by 928S View Post
    I added air to my Michelin tires last winter, and since have bled air as the ambient outside temperature rose. When seasonal cold weather returns, I'll need to add air again. In my daily driving routine, tire pressure rises about 2-4 lbs average and about 4-6 lbs max in hottest weather conditions. No hassle, no problem.

    If I switch to nitrogen, then perhaps I would need to add a fraction of a pound less in cold weather; and in daily driving, the friction/heat pressure rise would be somewhat less. That's it? Much ado about nothing, in my opinion.

    Okay. Maybe I need to try nitrogen for myself because, otherwise, I don't "get it."
    There really isn't anything 'to get'. Nitrogen is simply a more stable gas under pressure than is air. If you don't want tire pressure fluctuations due to temperature changes, then use nitrogen. If you don't care about a few pounds of fluctuation, then don't use nitrogen. That's all there is to it. I believe the whole nitrogen argument has been wildly blown out of proportion by those that want to profit from its use.

  3. #18
    ASKAD is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Smile Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Got this info from www.alldatadiy.com

    Hope it answers all questions.

    INFORMATION
    Bulletin No.: 05-03-10-020B
    Date: January 22, 2009
    Subject:
    Use of Nitrogen Gas in Tires
    Models:
    2010 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks (including Saturn)
    2010 and Prior HUMMER H2, H3
    2009 and Prior Saab 9-7X
    Supercede:
    This bulletin is being revised to add the 2009 and 2010 model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-03-10-020A (Section 03 - Suspension).
    GM's Position on the Use of Nitrogen Gas in Tires
    General Motors does not oppose the use of purified nitrogen as an inflation gas for tires. We expect the theoretical benefits to be reduced in practical use due to the lack of an existing infrastructure to continuously facilitate inflating tires with nearly pure nitrogen. Even occasional inflation with compressed atmospheric air will negate many of the theoretical benefits. Given those theoretical benefits, practical limitations, and the robust design of GM original equipment TPC tires, the realized benefits to our customer of inflating their tires with purified nitrogen are expected to be minimal.
    The Promise of Nitrogen: Under Controlled Conditions
    Recently, nitrogen gas (for use in inflating tires) has become available to the general consumer through some retailers. The use of nitrogen gas to inflate tires is a technology used in automobile racing. The following benefits under controlled conditions are attributed to nitrogen gas and its unique properties:
    A reduction in the expected loss of Tire Pressure over time.
    A reduction in the variance of Tire Pressures with temperature changes due to reduction of water vapor concentration.
    A reduction of long term rubber degradation due to a decrease in oxygen concentrations.
    Important: These are obtainable performance improvements when relatively pure nitrogen gas is used to inflate tires under controlled conditions.
    The Promise of Nitrogen: Real World Use
    Nitrogen inflation can provide some benefit by reducing gas migration (pressure loss) at the molecular level through the tire structure. NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) has stated that the inflation pressure loss of tires can be up to 5% a month.
    Nitrogen molecules are larger than oxygen molecules and, therefore, are less prone to "seeping" through the tire casing. The actual obtainable benefits of nitrogen vary, based on the physical construction and the materials used in the manufacturing of the tire being inflated.
    Another potential benefit of nitrogen is the reduced oxidation of tire components. Research has demonstrated that oxygen consumed in the oxidation process of the tire primarily comes from the inflation media. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that oxidation of tire components can be reduced if the tire is inflated with pure nitrogen. However, only very small amounts of oxygen are required to begin the normal oxidation process. Even slight contamination of the tire inflation gas with compressed atmospheric air during normal inflation pressure maintenance, may negate the benefits of using nitrogen.
    GM Tire Quality, Technology and Focus of Importance
    Since 1972, General Motors has designed tires under the TPC (Tire Performance Criteria) specification system, which includes specific requirements that ensure robust tire performance under normal usage.
    General Motors works with tire suppliers to design and manufacture original equipment tires for GM vehicles. The GM TPC addresses required performance with respect to both inflation pressure retention, and endurance properties for original equipment tires. The inflation pressure retention requirements address availability of oxygen and oxidation concerns, while endurance requirements ensure the mechanical structure of the tire has sufficient strength. This combination has provided our customers with tires that maintain their structural integrity throughout their useful treadlife under normal operating conditions.
    Regardless of the inflation media for tires (atmospheric air or nitrogen), inflation pressure maintenance of tires is critical for overall tire, and ultimately, vehicle performance. Maintaining the correct inflation pressure allows the tire to perform as intended by the vehicle manufacturer in many areas, including comfort, fuel economy, stopping distance, cornering, traction, treadwear, and noise. Since the load carrying capability of a tire is related to inflation pressure, proper inflation pressure maintenance is necessary for the tire to support the load imposed by the vehicle without excessive structural degradation.
    Important: Regardless of the inflation media for tires (atmospheric air or nitrogen), inflation pressure maintenance of tires is critical for overall tire, and ultimately, vehicle performance. overall tire, and ultimately, vehicle performance.

  4. #19
    GMFAN is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Always gonna be alot of pro's and con's about this subject.

    Because I purchased several vehicle from a local GM dealer, during a service visit he offered to fill my tires with nitrogen, free. Had nothing to loose. Personally, I didn't experience any noticable difference that would convince me to pay for this service in the future. No difference in tire maintenance, ride, handling, fuel mileage etc. I always check my tires at least once a week whether nitrogen filled or air.

  5. #20
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Per the GM statement, to realize these benefits it is critical to have pure nitrogen in the tires. So, I must ask: How is the existing atmospheric gas removed from the tire? Even a newly mounted tire is full of atmospheric gas (just at 1 atmosphere rather than pressurized). Unless you have some sort of setup that will allow you to "flush" the atmospheric gas out, you are going to be left with less that pure nitrogen in the tires.

    If you can get nitrogen fill for free, go for it. However, I would not pay for it.

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    z06bigbird is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Just yanking some chains here and having fun. I guess I just do not like change. Keep in mind that I still have a hard time buying metric wrenches. LOL

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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Quote Originally Posted by z06bigbird View Post
    Just yanking some chains here and having fun. I guess I just do not like change. Keep in mind that I still have a hard time buying metric wrenches. LOL
    Yea things have been kinda slow on our forum. We need to come up with a new vibration.

  8. #23
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    I had Nitrogen in my 2005 CTS for 3 yrs. A business assoc has a small tire shop and he was sold a bill of goods on a Nitrogen air compressor and he offered to fill mine for free if I would let him know the results. After 6 months (1 summer) my mpg never changed at all. There was no advantage from what I could see and it told him so many times in the 2.5 yrs I had it in the tires. He told me though he had customers tell him their mph jumped as much as 5 mpg and also that many customers had all kinds of positive feedback. My only answer to his claims was that there are a lot of suckers out there if they are paying you $20 to put air in their tires.

    The only advantage to nitrogen in your tires is for the shop that sold you on that.

  9. #24
    Edward Koziatek is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    There are definite advantages to the use of nitrogen and that's why its used in aircraft tires. The alleged cost charged by Dealers however is a joke.

  10. #25
    smithb is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    As an air force pilot and chemical engineer, I can say your fuel mileage and tire wear only changes because your air pressure drops, so if you maintain your tires (check them once a month) you will not get much of a difference. Nitrogen is a slightly larger molecule that oxygen, so it doesn't diffuse as quickly through the rubber (but this is hardly a factor). For abmient air, water vapor is very near is condensation point, so it can change state more readily than nitrogen or oxygen (ie, liquify and decrease pressure), but a properly maintained air compressor should not have much moisture in it at all. The pressurization squeezes out most water, and it should have a dessicant filter if it is shop air. For aviation, I am talking to 2 maintainers here and they say the main reason they use it is that it is inert so it doesn't cause corrosion. It also helps for hot brakes, if the thermal plug metals, the tire's air won't feed the fire. The other key with aviation is the rapid temperature changes. Standard lapse rate is 2C for every 1000', as you climb to 40,000' and descend back down, water can freeze and thaw causing corrosion, damage, and pressure changes.
    If you are worried about your tires heating up and water expanding as you drive, it will not increase enough to burst your tires, and your fuel mileage will only go up. Otherwise, check your tire pressures once a month (or everyday using the car's sensors) and fill up when needed and there will be no difference in mileage or tire wear.

  11. #26
    gonzalezfj is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Quote Originally Posted by 2008cts4 View Post
    I did it thru Valvoline where I get my oil changed. $29. No difference in gas mileage however my tire pressure seems to be 35 on the hwy in the winter and up to 37 on a hot summer day... minimum fluctations. If you live in an area where you change altitude (Rocky mountains) this could be very helpful (This is why aircraft use nitrogen in there tires) Ive done it for about six months and havent had to add any yet. Not sure its worth it a sea level though.
    I guess you mean "This is why aircraft use nitrogen in their tires". 'There' and 'their' sound the same but have different meanings.

    And while we are correcting your mistatements, please stop spreading misinformation. The reason why aircraft use nitrogen in their tires is because said nitrogen is DRY. At the very low temperatures aircraft see at high altitudes, if there were any water vapor in the tire, it would condense and freeze (not a desirable condition when you land the plane).

    Frank Gonzalez

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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Koziatek View Post
    There are definite advantages to the use of nitrogen and that's why its used in aircraft tires. The alleged cost charged by Dealers however is a joke.
    Exactly when your car spends hours at sub zero temp, and then hits the ground at 180 mph and applys the brakes creating temps of 500 plus degrees like a commercial jetliner, then you will benefit of nitrogen in your tires.

  13. #28
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Quote Originally Posted by silver bullet View Post
    Exactly when your car spends hours at sub zero temp, and then hits the ground at 180 mph and applys the brakes creating temps of 500 plus degrees like a commercial jetliner, then you will benefit of nitrogen in your tires.

    Can't tell if you are trying to be funny....but this describes my driving perfectly.

  14. #29
    marktanner is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Nitrogen is used in racing because the lack of temperature rise makes the handling more consistent, and it makes setup easier as well. This also provides better longevity of the tire during extreme conditions. It has obvious benefits for track work, but also for hard street driving, such as in the mountains, if you like to take the car to it's limits, like I do. Not likely to be as much of an advantage on the highway, unless the ambient (and surface) temperatures get very high.

  15. #30
    928S is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Nitrogen Tire Fill

    Charles' Law: The volume of a gas varies directly with temperature. Increase the temperature, the gas mixture expands, and the volume increases proportionately.

    It's my understanding that Charles' Law
    applies to all gases, including nitrogen and oxygen. It would be interesting to see scientific data comparing the psi effects of temperature change under typical real-world driving conditions on air-filled tires (typically about 79% nitrogen, 20% oxygen and others, including about 1% water vapor in "dry" ambient air)
    vs. so-called nitrogen-filled tires (typically about 95% nitrogen and 5% air, in purged and refilled tires).

    Consumer Reports "did look at the inflation pressure over various ambient temperatures but could not find a significant difference between air and nitrogen" - the CR controlled one-year test was static, not conducted under driving conditions with road friction/heat.

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