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2008-2013 Cadillac CTS General Discussion Discussion, Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon in Cadillac CTS Second Generation Forum - 2008-2013; It's interesting reading all your responses and to find out this is an ongoing issue with some of the AWD ...
  1. #31
    1772jamie is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    It's interesting reading all your responses and to find out this is an ongoing issue with some of the AWD cars. I have reset the dic with no change. I will manually calculate it next time I fill up but I do know it's not getting the 16-18 in town that it should be getting just by the fuel consumption in a short amount of time. As of right now this wagon is getting similar mileage to my 04 Denali that I had and it was much heavier than this car. I am going to do some of your recommendations like fuel injector cleaner, etc and start running regular fuel. Do you guys have an injector cleaner you recommend?

  2. #32
    Douglas Rome is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    RAB, you're right on, the '11 is a 3.0 CTS-4 and her city driving is not in downtown
    Chicago. I will have her check it next time she gets gas, should be easy she sets
    trip A to zero; I'll report back here with the results. thanks, douglas

  3. #33
    calif phil is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    Do you guys have an injector cleaner you recommend?[/QUOTE]

    BG44k is one of the best injector cleaners.

  4. #34
    Cougar281 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    With the DI motors, I think injector cleaner is just snake oil. They operate at e MUCH higher pressure than SFI systems, so there isn't really an opportunity for anything to 'stick around'.

  5. #35
    C "T" ess's Avatar
    C "T" ess is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    I agree that an AWD would have more resistance but,then why wouldn't the window sticker reflect the reduced mileage estimates.
    Someone previously posted a link to a government site that explained why the estimates are different than actual real world results. Unfortunately I don't remember the substance of the report but to some degree it sounded plausible. Around town I can average 14-17 mpg, but that's in stop and go traffic. Also, since I removed the air silencer I love the sound of the exhaust at full throttle so I enjoy getting on it. I figure it's a trade off, fun vs economy. On the Highway I get about 23 mpg at a steady 80 mph.
    Also, I believe one of our commercial vendors explained why fuel injector cleaner was a waste of money since the fuel pressure is so high. Just my 0.02 cents worth.

  6. #36
    hauler's Avatar
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    If the AWD with poor mileage were mine, the only fluid I would add is GM limited slip differential additive - to each diff and the transfer case. Also make sure that all tire pressures are equal, and about half way between "recommended" and the max indicated on the tire.

  7. #37
    tinman's Avatar
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    Pertaining to injector cleaner such as Techron, etc., my dealer told me that while it won't do anything for our valves it may help with keeping the fuel pump clean, fwiw.

    I still say bs, but it just might help. Not every 5000-7000 miles. I don't see that as beneficial. Every 35,000-50,000 maybe.

  8. #38
    Tom-C is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    1772 Jamie:
    I have a 2012 CTS-4 Wagon 3.6 Premium, that I bought new about 3 months ago. Got a heck of a deal. The car only has 3,000 total miles on it. My overall average on the DIC and by adding all the gas I bought and dividing by the miles I drove is a little over 20. I also was worried about gas mileage right after I got it, so I filled up, stayed off the gas, went to a winery about 180 miles away and filled up again when I got home. DIC and paper calculation were within 1-MPG at about 26.

    I am very satisfied with the car's performance. If I don't pay attention, I find myself at 15 to 20 over the speed limit very quickly and smooth and quiet. I am also happy with the overall MPG since I often put my foot to the floor and am still averaging about 20 MPG on regular. I have owned a number of sports cars and this car goes around a corner faster then anything I have been in except a Porsche 911 from a long time ago.

    The engine is also a bit amazing. I am an airplane buff and give tours at the National Air and Space Museum. We went almost all the way through WWII before there was an aircraft engine that broke 1 HP / CU IN and that took 115/145 octane aviation fuel. The CTS is 318 for 265 cu in on regular.

  9. #39
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    Quote Originally Posted by C "T" ess View Post
    I agree that an AWD would have more resistance but,then why wouldn't the window sticker reflect the reduced mileage estimates.
    Someone previously posted a link to a government site that explained why the estimates are different than actual real world results. Unfortunately I don't remember the substance of the report but to some degree it sounded plausible. Around town I can average 14-17 mpg, but that's in stop and go traffic. Also, since I removed the air silencer I love the sound of the exhaust at full throttle so I enjoy getting on it. I figure it's a trade off, fun vs economy. On the Highway I get about 23 mpg at a steady 80 mph.
    Also, I believe one of our commercial vendors explained why fuel injector cleaner was a waste of money since the fuel pressure is so high. Just my 0.02 cents worth.
    That was me.

    Ask and you shall receive (actually you really didn't ask ).....

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...e-getting.html

  10. #40
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    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, stick on fender vents
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    To further muddy the waters surrounding gas mileage and fuel injector cleaning, Google "top tier gasoline" and "chevron techron". Study a few links to find how the two are intertwined.

    Techron is a powerful fuel system cleaner - a 20 oz. jug is recommended at intervals greater than 5,000 miles.

  11. #41
    SC2150's Avatar
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    Quote Originally Posted by tinman View Post
    Pertaining to injector cleaner such as Techron, etc., my dealer told me that while it won't do anything for our valves it may help with keeping the fuel pump clean, fwiw.

    I still say bs, but it just might help. Not every 5000-7000 miles. I don't see that as beneficial. Every 35,000-50,000 maybe.
    We have yet to see any buildup in the DI fuel injectors as the fuel is introduced at app. 2,000 PSI no residue, varnish gets a chance to accumulate unlike a traditional port injector at 45-55PSI. You have one of the few knowledgeable dealer staff that actually understands DI. The in tank lift pump may benefit from an additive, but nothing else in the entire system will. Your HPDI pump runs off the drivers side intake cam lobe (plunger style) and we have seen some fail, but only from wear....not residue.

    Now a port injection engine benefits greatly from top tier detergent fuels and/or the occasional additive such as techron.

    On the earlier posts on octane, have covered that a gazillion times. The 11.3-11.5:1 compression ratio of the LLT & LFX both will produce a bit more power and get a bit better MPG with 91-93 octane due to the timing advance not being retarded from the detonation present under a load with 87. 87 octane is the marketing side of recommendation, not the engineering side. While the engine will not be damaged as sensitive as the knock sensors are as the ECU/PCM pulls the timing to eliminate it so quickly, the engines are NOT old port injection 9-9.5:1 CR engines where any more than 87 is a complete waste. Now, does the cost outweigh the gain? Maybe...we never calculated that, but we do see when logging the detomnation with 87 as well as power on the dyno.

    Very easy to put 100% trust into a marketing strategy, but the engineering side shows the engines at their high CR benefit in power and economy with 91-93 octane period.
    RX Performance Products/RevXtreme.com 941-721-1826

  12. #42
    RAB's Avatar
    RAB
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    The real issue here is the significant variability between vehicles. Based on the input of forum members here, some AWD/3.6L equipped 2nd gen CTS's reportedly get good/expected gas mileage, and reflect or even slightly improve upon the official mpg ratings for the car. With some other identically equipped cars however - the percentage of total being unknown of course - the vehicles get terrible gas mileage.. the sort of mileage you'd expect if driving a 5000+ pound full-size SUV. This lousy gas mileage result is completely at odds with the "official" mpg numbers that are displayed LARGE on the new car window sticker. Complain to the dealer about lousy gas mileage and see how far that gets you. I know of no other product you can buy where if it doesn't perform to specification, well that's just too bad for you.

  13. #43
    Jorf is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    I've got a 2010 AWD 3.6 premium wagon that I just bought about two months ago. It's got just over 30,000 miles and is a CPO vehicle now that's covered under warranty until November 2015.

    Since getting the car, the city MPG has been the baying my existence. I've been seeing numbers between 10-13 mpg city. It's absolutely abysmal.
    I hate to need to bicker with the dealership again, since I just got it back from being rear-ended at a stop light a few weeks ago. But, I suppose I might ask them if there's anything they know about. I've been using 87 octane fuel, and no matter my driving style (egg under foot, hard driving, pulse and glide) the MPG is really about the same, and I've never seen anywhere near the window sticker numbers.

    I can't really comment on highway mileage because I haven't been able to take the car on a decent trip yet (It was in the shop being repaired from the accident when I had to go to my parents' place for thanksgiving, so I took the loaner).

  14. #44
    Tbbt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    Jorf,


    What did you have for a loaner on your trip and what was your MPG? knowing might help determine if it's your car or you! Everything is relative!
    Marv

  15. #45
    Jorf is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Horrible Gas Mileage 10 AWD 3.6 Wagon

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbbt View Post
    Jorf,


    What did you have for a loaner on your trip and what was your MPG? knowing might help determine if it's your car or you! Everything is relative!
    Marv
    I had a 2012 dodge avenger. I was pulling 33 mpg highway, 27 mixed.
    The car I had before the cadillac was a 1998 subaru legacy 2.4L i4 with ~160,000 miles on it that I drove for 7 years. I used to get 28 mpg highway, 22 mixed, 18 normal city, 17 in severe traffic city (talking like chicago rushhour, being at a dead stop for 20-30 minute time periods).

    I'm pretty sure it's not me. I used to have little competitions with friends over who could hypermile the best in their various cars.

    I know that part of what may be affecting my mileage is that I drive in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and there's actually quite a few hilly streets here. While I acknowledge that the hills probably contribute, there's no reason for me to be achieving 10-13 mpg city.

    Looking at the insti-mpg though the vehicle just looks wrong to me... as soon as I touch the gas pedal, it'll drop to 18 mpg (this is egg-under-foot touching, just enough to make the engine do something... not really even accelerate). If I have to press hard enough to actually accelerate (slow acceleration, like 1mph/s), it'll drop to 13 mpg, and accelerating harder than that is even worse. Pedal on the floor acceleration earns me an instant rating of 2mpg.

    I understand it's a large engine, but man those numbers just seem low to me. The car doesn't behave how I'd think that it should. I've pulled better MPG driving a dodge viper around for a weekend, and you'd better believe I wasn't being "nice" to that car's pedal!

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