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2008-2013 Cadillac CTS General Discussion Discussion, Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS? in Cadillac CTS Second Generation Forum - 2008-2013; Chris, I appreciate your contributions to the forums, but you're doing a tremendous disservice to members trying to generalize the ...
  1. #106
    Mustang Matt is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Chris, I appreciate your contributions to the forums, but you're doing a tremendous disservice to members trying to generalize the problem away.

    The people here who are concerned about this are genuinely interested in getting down to the root cause and less than 100% have low oil issues.

    Here is my VIN: 1G6DG577990139282. Call bommarito St. peters cadillac and ask them if my car was low on oil. It was at 66% on the oil usage.

    You can flat out call me a liar if you want and say that I filled it but you'd be wrong.

    I can send you photos of my dipstick at every 1000 miles and I'm even willing to take it up to 7500 miles if that's what it will take to get you to quit perpetuating that "every one you've seen" has been caused by low oil. Unless changing the timing chains magically fixed an oil consumption problem that was impossible to detect on my car.

    Even so, are we really arguing about whether the 3.6L is a pos because it has low quality chains or if it's a pos because it mysteriously loses oil for so many customers? GM controls the software that states the oil percentage. They could have lowered it to 5000 or even 3000 miles if losing oil was the prominent cause.

    I did get this response from Cloyes:
    "Those chains are being made by Schaeffler, they are the OE manufacturer and we simply purchase the OE chain from them for our kits. I don’t know the specifics on that chain, because we don’t have the manufacturing information. I have seen them stretch to the point where the computer can’t adjust the cam phasers anymore. It could be a matter of bad heat treating, Im not sure. It’s a French made chain. The only option on that application is the OE chain from Schaeffler, so our hand are tied as to what we can provide. We can only hope GM has addressed the issue with Schaeffler and the problem has been fixed."

    I will update this thread if I get a response from Schaeffler.

  2. #107
    tinman's Avatar
    tinman is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Sh!t, there's your problem. It's French made. The only thing they do well is wine. Look at the damn transmission. It's French made and it's (mine) is a P.O.S.

  3. #108
    Mustang Matt is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    The wine is so good, they're drinking it during their 30 hour work weeks!

  4. #109
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang Matt View Post

    Even so, are we really arguing about whether the 3.6L is a pos because it has low quality chains or if it's a pos because it mysteriously loses oil for so many customers? GM controls the software that states the oil percentage. They could have lowered it to 5000 or even 3000 miles if losing oil was the prominent cause.
    They did put out a change for the affected vehicles with the OLM programming that would shorten oil change intervals
    tinman likes this.

  5. #110
    Mustang Matt is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    I'm aware of that and my car did have the update. Mine still seems like 50% is around 4000 miles though.

    It's still skirting around my main concern here. I don't think it's accurate to say that "every car that has this problem had low oil."

  6. #111
    CTSCHICK is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    ^ That is because that is the most common and easy answer to give but it isn't the only one that is given with the problem.
    Some of the other affected engines required updated tensioners and or updated larger oil nozzles that supply the chains oil and ect.

  7. #112
    wcammack is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Hi Chris--My name is Bill and thank you in advance for checking about my timing chain issue. My e-mail is wcammack@charter.net. I have a 2008 CTS DI and the VIN # is 1G6DV57V880204755.

  8. #113
    wcammack is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Chris at RippyPartsDept--I posted my VIN online because you can't receive messages as your mailbox is full.

  9. #114
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    wcammack, thanks for letting me know my inbox was full... your VIN does have the special coverage associated with it ... any GM dealer's service consultants should be able to also confirm this for you

    as mentioned earlier in this thread the special coverage extends the warranty for this issue to 10 years or 120,000 miles (whichever occurs first)



    MustangMatt, are you the original owner of the vehicle? I would assume that you're not, and if that's the case how can you be sure that the correct oil and oil level were maintained when the original owner got the oil changed? Looking at the history of your vehicle, it never had an oil change at a GM dealer until 59000 miles (I'm assuming that was you and I do not doubt your level of care for your vehicle).

    I'm not trying to insinuate that you're lying or anything like that. I really don't understand why your car isn't covered and others are. That just doesn't seem fair to me, but GM has covered almost all of them and it seems to me like you're jumping to conclusions on something that either can't be known or at least is very hard to know and thus probably won't be known. I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm pretty sure you're not right and even then I'm still agnostic to the true cause even though I have a pretty good idea of at least some of the problem.



    the point I'm trying to make here is that all it takes is one time for the oil to get low and irreversible damage has been done
    another common occurrence is the wrong oil being used (dino instead of the GM4718M or GM6904M syn oil) and it's just a matter of time

    usually the original owner who does this damage isn't the one who pays the price... the kind of people who treat and discard cars like appliances are who we're talking about here

    that, combined with well meaning owners who just didn't think to check their oil even once between their 10,000 mile oil change intervals
    those are just some of the related causes of this issue - the main one would be why do some engines consume oil and some don't? right?

    i don't have the answers for this, but I do know that it is more complex than a design flaw in the chain and there's been a lot of talk about a manufacturing defect in batches of the chains but I don't have any solid knowledge of anything in that regard ...

    what I do know is that we see a lot of these cars come in with almost no oil in them... lots ...


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  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang Matt
    ?... Call bommarito St. peters cadillac and ask them if my car was low on oil. It was at 66% on the oil usage. You can flat out call me a liar if you want and say that I filled it but you'd be wrong. I can send you photos of my dipstick at every 1000 miles and I'm even willing to take it up to 7500 miles if that's what it will take to get you to quit perpetuating that "every one you've seen" has been caused by low oil. Unless changing the timing chains magically fixed an oil consumption problem that was impossible to detect on my car. Even so, are we really arguing about whether the 3.6L is a pos because it has low quality chains or if it's a pos because it mysteriously loses oil for so many customers? GM controls the software that states the oil percentage. They could have lowered it to 5000 or even 3000 miles if losing oil was the prominent cause. .
    Just clarification for how this is worded. Oil life (percentage) has nothing to do with oil level. Depending on oil consumption you could be a 66% and only have a quart of oil in the engine. I don't think you meant that they are the same, but depending how you read it, it may come across that way. That is why I believe as part of the recall GM recalibrated the OLM so that it wouldn't go to far regardless of the true oil life, essentially to account for oil consumption. You could be driving all highway miles all the while consuming oil and most people think that they don't have to check the oil because the OLM says you're good.

    You can then go the BMW route. Our X5 does not have a dipstick. The vehicle calls for pure synthetic and oil changes at 15K mile intervals. The car has an oil level sensor and you check the oil by going into the diagnostic menu. Once you're down a quart you get a message telling you to add oil. I call it over engineering for the masses. Replace a $20 dipstick with a $500 oil level sensor (I don't know if it ally costs $500, but it's definitely more than a dipstick).

  11. #116
    Cougar281 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by gohawks63 View Post
    Just clarification for how this is worded. Oil life (percentage) has nothing to do with oil level. Depending on oil consumption you could be a 66% and only have a quart of oil in the engine. I don't think you meant that they are the same, but depending how you read it, it may come across that way.

    That is why I believe as part of the recall GM recalibrate the OLM so that it wouldn't go to far regardless of the true oil life. Essential to account for oil consumption. You could be driving all highway miles all the while consuming oil and most people think that they don't have to check the oil because the OLM says you're good.

    Although you can then go the BMW route. Our X5 does not have a dipstick. The vehicle calls for pure synthetic and oil changes at 15K mile intervals. The car has an oil level sensor and you check the oil by going into the diagnostic menu. Once you're down a quart you get a message telling you to add oil.

    I call it over engineering for the masses. Replace a $20 dipstick with a $500 oil level sensor (I don't know if it ally costs $500, but it's definitely more than a dipstick).
    I THINK these cars are supposed to have an oil level sensor - I know my 04 Silverado does. One would think that would trip and yell at the driver before damage could be done..... If it doesn't (I haven't gotten UNDER 'my' CTS yet, since I haven't brought it home yet and it's too low to do so without jacking), one would think that if oil level was such a problem, GM would recalibrate the ECM oil life on existing cars and add a level sensor on new production cars. Adding an oil level sensor would not be near the re-engineering processes for the 2nd Gen CTS as replacing the existing infotainment system with a newer Sync based system would be.... add a sensor, a few wires and some programming. Done. Car yells when level heads to an unsafe level.

    As I said, I think there's more to this than GM Corporate is letting on. I cannot see how the oil level (unless it drops so low the oil pump sucks the pan dry and is starved) can cause timing chain stretch. Run it out? Of course I can see that causing issues. One or even two quarts low? I can't see HOW that would cause this as the pump is still picking up oil and delivering it to the entire engine.

  12. #117
    wcammack is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Hi Chris--If you have the time, could you please e-mail me a copy of the PDF you mentioned? My e-mail is wcammack@charter.net. Thanks in advance!

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    CTSCHICK is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar281 View Post
    I THINK these cars are supposed to have an oil level sensor - I know my 04 Silverado does. One would think that would trip and yell at the driver before damage could be done..... If it doesn't (I haven't gotten UNDER 'my' CTS yet, since I haven't brought it home yet and it's too low to do so without jacking), one would think that if oil level was such a problem, GM would recalibrate the ECM oil life on existing cars and add a level sensor on new production cars. Adding an oil level sensor would not be near the re-engineering processes for the 2nd Gen CTS as replacing the existing infotainment system with a newer Sync based system would be.... add a sensor, a few wires and some programming. Done. Car yells when level heads to an unsafe level.

    As I said, I think there's more to this than GM Corporate is letting on. I cannot see how the oil level (unless it drops so low the oil pump sucks the pan dry and is starved) can cause timing chain stretch. Run it out? Of course I can see that causing issues. One or even two quarts low? I can't see HOW that would cause this as the pump is still picking up oil and delivering it to the entire engine.
    The 3.6 does not have an oil level sensor like the Gm trucks, vettes, camaro's only an oil pressure sensor.
    Only the CTSV has the level sensor along with the pressure sensor.

    The oil pressure sensor is supposed to know when the oil level is low by reading the pressure and flash but it does not work as good or instant like the low level sensor in the pan like other GM's

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTSCHICK View Post

    The 3.6 does not have an oil level sensor like the Gm trucks, vettes, camaro's only an oil pressure sensor.
    Only the CTSV has the level sensor along with the pressure sensor.

    The oil pressure sensor is supposed to know when the oil level is low by reading the pressure and flash but it does not work as good or instant like the low level sensor in the pan like other GM's
    Gotcha. You'd think if the level was THAT critical beyond being high enough for the oil pump to not suck air, gm would have incorporated a level sensor.... By the time the oil pressure sensor detects a pressure fluctuation that could indicate (SUPER) low oil level, its started sucking air and the damage is done.

  15. #120
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    they did incorporate a level indicator though it's commonly called a "dipstick" and the owner's manual is very clear about checking the oil level every time you fill up for gas
    personally i don't check every time i get gas but i usually check once a month or so
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