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2008-2013 Cadillac CTS General Discussion Discussion, Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS? in Cadillac CTS Second Generation Forum - 2008-2013; Originally Posted by Mustang Matt Doug, I get what you're saying but . If it wasn't a common problem I ...
  1. #61
    99flhr is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang Matt View Post

    Doug, I get what you're saying but . If it wasn't a common problem I could write it off as a fluke. Because it's a common problem and because GM has at least partially acknowledged this for cars with chains from their previous supplier,. It doesn't change the taste in my mouth

    .
    Agree 100%

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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    matt, where are you getting your info that the special coverage is based on chain design/manufacturer?
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    I'm flabbergasted that they say they won't cover is because you are a DIY oil changer? And you have all the documentation, receipts, boxes, labels, log book? I never heard of that, any car manufacturer honors as far as I know? I'm a DIY'er too and I keep meticulous records of everything I do, and again, as far as I know, example;
    I drive a 2008 Dodge that has a lifetime drivetrain warranty, it requires a five year inspection (which was done recently) I brought in my records, they signed off on the inspection and said see you later. they even fixed a leak in the transfer case under warranty. I'm not pumping up Chrysler about this, I do the same thing with GM and Ford, never had an issue. I hope you pursue it a little further. thanks, douglas

  4. #64
    Mustang Matt is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    matt, where are you getting your info that the special coverage is based on chain design/manufacturer?
    This is what Robin the District Rep told me. The reason not all 2009 CTS 3.6L motors are covered is due to a switch in supplier. (I'll be shocked if they aren't eventually covered.)

    That's about as much information as I was able to pry out of her. I tried to get an understanding of who reviewed the case but she wouldn't open up on that only stating that she had the ultimate authority to transfer the information that was decided.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Rome View Post
    I'm flabbergasted that they say they won't cover is because you are a DIY oil changer? And you have all the documentation, receipts, boxes, labels, log book? I never heard of that, any car manufacturer honors as far as I know? I'm a DIY'er too and I keep meticulous records of everything I do, and again, as far as I know, example;
    I drive a 2008 Dodge that has a lifetime drivetrain warranty, it requires a five year inspection (which was done recently) I brought in my records, they signed off on the inspection and said see you later. they even fixed a leak in the transfer case under warranty. I'm not pumping up Chrysler about this, I do the same thing with GM and Ford, never had an issue. I hope you pursue it a little further. thanks, douglas
    All I have is the date/mileage log in my Google calendar. (I also have a stockpile of 5 quart jugs of Mobil 1 5w30 and I buy filters for both cars in bulk. Actually, I guess I do have an email receipt most filter purchases.) It didn't matter though because they never got to the point where they asked for receipts or any documentation.

    I think the problem here is that the car isn't actually under warranty, it's out of the 100,000 mile warranty where they wouldn't be able to legally blow me off unless they could prove my oil changes caused the problem.

    Instead, I'm trying to be included in the special coverage adjustment that goes up to 120,000 miles. At this point it's 100% their discretion. I suspect they knew from the start they were going to reject me regardless of anything. That's why it would have saved me some money if they had been up front about that vs having the dealership diagnose the problem. That cost was small, but still.

    That's one heck of a warranty on the Dodge. I've never heard of such a thing.

    I'm not sure how to pursue it further. I tried and tried to escalate. I asked for her manager's manager and she wouldn't give it to me. I guess I could write a letter to corp. GM but I suspect it would never make it to anyone who cared.

    She did offer me $1500 towards a new GM vehicle. I asked her why I would buy a new GM vehicle when they wouldn't take care of me on my existing one.

    She was very patronizing and robotic to speak with. I suppose that's "professional" but what I really wanted was to speak with a human who was at least sympathetic of my problem. Now, her manager, Julian, seemed a little more human and was easier to deal with. I calmed down a bit when I was on the phone with him because he understood where I was coming from at least.

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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    we're not talking about a warranty claim that is being denied because he does his own oil changes
    we are talking about GM considering covering his vehicle when it is out of warranty because other vehicles like his got a special coverage extension and his didn't

    i know this probably sounds harsh but GM didn't have to even consider helping you out
    they did which probably makes it harder (getting your hopes up) but it seems like you don't have many more options

    look at it this way: as a DIYer you've already saved as much as this job is going to cost you (probably) and think of how much you'll save DIYing this job also

    ...

    and just for the record this timing chain issue isn't so bad that every single one of these cars will need this job done
    we've done a lot of these jobs but when you compare the number of timing chain jobs to the number of oil changes it's a small percentage
    a small percentage can be too high of a percentage and these cars had warranties extended and special coverages applied
    you just happen to be in the rare case of someone who's not covered by the special coverage extension and who also is a DIYer

    and your case is the first one I've heard of with the new chain supplier parts that has had chain problems without running low on oil
    every single one of the non-special coverage timing chain jobs we've done was on a car with high oil consumption (rings not seated properly usually)
    and the owner never checked their dipstick to see if they needed to add any oil between oil changes
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept
    we're not talking about a warranty claim that is being denied because he does his own oil changes
    we are talking about GM considering covering his vehicle when it is out of warranty because other vehicles like his got a special coverage extension and his didn't

    i know this probably sounds harsh but GM didn't have to even consider helping you out
    they did which probably makes it harder (getting your hopes up) but it seems like you don't have many more options

    look at it this way: as a DIYer you've already saved as much as this job is going to cost you (probably) and think of how much you'll save DIYing this job also

    ...

    and just for the record this timing chain issue isn't so bad that every single one of these cars will need this job done
    we've done a lot of these jobs but when you compare the number of timing chain jobs to the number of oil changes it's a small percentage
    a small percentage can be too high of a percentage and these cars had warranties extended and special coverages applied
    you just happen to be in the rare case of someone who's not covered by the special coverage extension and who also is a DIYer

    and your case is the first one I've heard of with the new chain supplier parts that has had chain problems without running low on oil
    every single one of the non-special coverage timing chain jobs we've done was on a car with high oil consumption (rings not seated properly usually)
    and the owner never checked their dipstick to see if they needed to add any oil between oil changes
    I just went back and re-read the post to see what your mileage was. Seeing that you're at 114K miles, I may have to agree with Rippy here.

    Timing chains and timing belts fail.

    Timing belts used to have a recommended replacement at 60K miles and most now go to 100K miles. If that belt fails out of warranty, but before the recommended time to replace it, you are not going to get a manufacturer to cover the catastrophic engine damage. It ends up being bad luck.

    My brother used to have a Plymouth Laser (Rebadged Mitsubishi Eclipse) and the timing belt failed at 7K miles causing major engine damage. Fortunately he was still under warranty, but if it had failed at 40K miles he would have been SOL.

    If there wasn't so much publicity on the timing chain issues with the 3.6L, there wouldn't have been much discussion. A timing chain failure on a high mileage car is hardly something unheard of. Sure, plenty of cars don't have failures, but things do go wrong.

    If your VIN doesn't fall within the range of covered cars it means that the manufacturer either changed the design, changed the manufacturer or both. You're 64K miles out of warranty. If your car was in the VIN range and then they changed their mind, then yeah you have a legitimate beef. Yours having failed is a case of bad luck, and it sucks when bad luck happens to you.

    Edit: I see that you are actually only 14K mile out of the powertrain warranty. Still reading....

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang Matt

    Really bumming now. I've never heard of an engine that had timing chain issues through normal driving without loss of oil or something catastrophic.
    I know it's not quite the same, but I had the timing chain fail on a my college car '78 Impala with a 305 cu. in. V8 at a 100k miles, so it does happen.

    I see now. Essentially they are not considering to offer some sort of out of warranty goodwill because you did your own maintenance. Did you save the receipts from each and every oil change? That's what I used to do when I used to do all my own oil changes.

    I stopped doing them because I didn't want to deal anymore with the hassle of storing and properly disposing of waste oil. Also, it wasn't much cheaper to do it on my own. Also by having the dealer do it there is always a record.

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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Having had an ecotec 2.4 and the 3.6 If GM wants to blame low oil level as a part of the problem and cause then they can do every one justice by having a low oil level sensor like they do in some of their other vehicles.

    Such a a simply sensor could prevent a lot of damage from my personal experience in having to replace an ecotec timing chain due to a front seal leak that only took 3-4 days to do damage after checking my oil level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTSCHICK
    Having had an ecotec 2.4 and the 3.6 If GM wants to blame low oil level as a part of the problem and cause then they can do every one justice by having a low oil level sensor like they do in some of their other vehicles.

    Such a a simply sensor could prevent a lot of damage
    Well there is the pressure gauge and there is the idiot light too.... No?

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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by gohawks63 View Post
    Well there is the pressure gauge and there is the idiot light too.... No?
    From what I have always been told you would have to be well past 1Qt of of oil missing more like 1.5 -2Qt's to set the light off and by then the damage can already be done.

    And depending on the oil pressure gauge minus 1Qt of oil the gauge wont show much of a difference if it shows a difference at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTSCHICK

    From what I have always been told you would have to be well past 1Qt of of oil missing more like 1.5 -2Qt's to set the light off and by then the damage can already be done.
    Ah.....

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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by gohawks63 View Post
    Ah.....
    Sorry I edited and added to my posts while you were responding.

    GM uses an oil level sensor in the Camaro's,Vettes, Trucks, ect..


    Sorry just thinking out loud while reading all of this

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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    [QUOTe

    That's one heck of a warranty on the Dodge. I've never heard of such a thing.
    [/QUOTE]

    2008, remember they couldn't hardly give their cars away? Lifetime drivetrain warranty, cannot be transferred original
    owner only, must obey maintenance schedule to the "T", must have inspection every 5yrs. I keep meticulous records, log book,
    receipts, box end flaps, whatever dictates common sense. I just sold a 1998 Olds Intrigue, gave the happy new owner a stack
    of paper 2" thick dating from 1998 to date thanks, douglas

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    Mustang Matt is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by gohawks63 View Post
    Timing chains and timing belts fail.
    I've owned one car with a timing belt. It's a part that's made to be replaced and doesn't cost $3100 to do the replacement.

    Like I've said previously, these two Cadillacs were my first venture into the GM world. I bought Cadillac because I thought they were the highest quality products GM made. I've never had any timing chain or engine problems on any other vehicle and I put a LOT of miles on my vehicles. (as you can see with this one)

    My opinion is that timing chains shouldn't fail short of random catastrophic failure. I've had a 472 rwhp Cobra and a 698 rwhp Cobra running factory timing chains and running them HARD without ever having issues. An AWD highway cruiser daily driver just shouldn't have timing chain issues. I was a sucker when I thought the revised chain in my car was going to last.

    Anyway, I've started tearing things down. Parts should be here Monday or Tuesday.

  14. #74
    99flhr is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Does #11340C special coverage adjustment cover every 2009 3.6L CTS?

    [QUOTE=Rip

    look at it this way: as a DIYer you've already saved as much as this job is going to cost you (probably) and think of how much you'll save DIYing this job also

    [/QUOTE]

    Chris, you make some valid points but ^ Really ? This is sophistry at it`s most spurious, and absolutely zero consolation .

    Respectfully & JMO

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang Matt

    I've owned one car with a timing belt. It's a part that's made to be replaced and doesn't cost $3100 to do the replacement.

    Like I've said previously, these two Cadillacs were my first venture into the GM world. I bought Cadillac because I thought they were the highest quality products GM made. I've never had any timing chain or engine problems on any other vehicle and I put a LOT of miles on my vehicles. (as you can see with this one)

    My opinion is that timing chains shouldn't fail short of random catastrophic failure. I've had a 472 rwhp Cobra and a 698 rwhp Cobra running factory timing chains and running them HARD without ever having issues. An AWD highway cruiser daily driver just shouldn't have timing chain issues. I was a sucker when I thought the revised chain in my car was going to last.

    Anyway, I've started tearing things down. Parts should be here Monday or Tuesday.
    I agree that $3,100 is ridiculous. The highest I have been quoted on timing belt replacement with a water pump replacement was around $1,500.

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