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2008-2013 Cadillac CTS General Discussion Discussion, The steering saga continues in Cadillac CTS Second Generation Forum - 2008-2013; Originally Posted by bobseil In my previous note re: the "shuttering" I mentioned that the dealer (Wyler Cadillac in Fairfield ...
  1. #76
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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Quote Originally Posted by bobseil View Post
    In my previous note re: the "shuttering" I mentioned that the dealer (Wyler Cadillac in Fairfield Ohio) attributed it to "cupped" tires. I have 30,000 miles on these Michelin - Pilot tires. I took the car to the Tire Discounters where I buy all of my tires for their opinion. The said the the Pilot tires are high quality tires and that the tread is still very good. They further said that there is no cupping and that the problem I am experiencing is definitely not attributable to the tires, in their opinion. I did try going in big circles faster. When turning with no pressure on the accelerator there is no shuttering. As I increase the speed, the shuttering begins. It seems to go away as I get into wider turns. There is none during normal driving and no vibration. Bottom line is that I guess I will learn to live with this condition. I was just concerned that it would become a bigger problem later on. I guess some CRT4's have it and some do not. One thing is clear - the dealers do not know what to do about it nor do they understand the technology involved. Thanks to everyone for the comments. At least I know that I am not halucinating. After 3 Cadillacs, 6 Buicks and 1 Cheverolet, I am done with GM.
    Hello bobseil,

    I apologize that you do not agree with the response that you were given from your dealership in regards to this issue and that it seems that this is normal operation of the vehicle. If you would like me to set you up an appointment for a second opinion at another dealership, I would be more than happy to. I am sorry to hear that you will not be purchasing another GM vehicle as well. We take statements like that very seriously at GM and I hope that one day we are able to earn your business again. Thank you very much for your time and please feel free to reach out to us via private message or email at socialmedia@gm.com if you would like to further discuss your concerns.

    Gregory W.
    Cadillac Customer Care

  2. #77
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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Well the dealer still has mine in the shop. I took it in yesterday for this problem, plus a fan motor noise. They asked to keep it till today but I don't know whether they're still working on either of those issues or were just busy. They gave me a new ATS4 2.0T for a loaner so I'm okay till they call today!

    I'll let you all know!

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Quote Originally Posted by dlpuette View Post
    Well the dealer still has mine in the shop. I took it in yesterday for this problem, plus a fan motor noise. They asked to keep it till today but I don't know whether they're still working on either of those issues or were just busy. They gave me a new ATS4 2.0T for a loaner so I'm okay till they call today!

    I'll let you all know!
    Thank you for keeping us updated, dlpuette. We will be on the lookout for your next update. Gregory and I can further look into your situation if needed, so don't hesitate to contact us.

    Regards,

    Laura M.
    Cadillac Customer Care

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Just got off the phone with the dealer. The SM said they checked it out and it's normal. I asked if ALL 4wd Cadillacs do this and she said yes. I said that's funny, because my loaner is a 4wd ATS and it exhibits none of that behaviour. She said GM has bulletins out explaining it and I'll get a copy when I pick the car up. I have a feeling we'll have a less than cordial conversation about it when I pick the car up in a few hrs.

    I'll let you know what they say and what this bulletin says.

    This is my first GM product ever. Got my first red flag on my first visit. Hope the future of my ownership get brighter!

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    At least you got a turbo ATS. I got a stripper pos. I do like the chassis handling, even though it had no balls.

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    This may be way out there, but you may want to check the tire specs of the car with the problem and one with no problem, just to see if the problem car has higher traction tires. A few years ago, I switched tires on one of my Chevies to lower rated tires just to get rid of cornering noise.

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Cust Svc View Post
    Hello bobseil,

    I apologize that you do not agree with the response that you were given from your dealership in regards to this issue and that it seems that this is normal operation of the vehicle. If you would like me to set you up an appointment for a second opinion at another dealership, I would be more than happy to. I am sorry to hear that you will not be purchasing another GM vehicle as well. We take statements like that very seriously at GM and I hope that one day we are able to earn your business again. Thank you very much for your time and please feel free to reach out to us via private message or email at socialmedia@gm.com if you would like to further discuss your concerns.

    Gregory W.
    Cadillac Customer Care
    Thank you for your response and offer of a different dealer. I plan to go to a different one for my next service and will discuss it with them at that time. However, based on others experience I believe dealers are not technically able to understand or deal with issues involving the Cadillac all wheel drive system. My hope in originally contacting Cadillac directly was to perhaps get a response from someone familiar with this system, e.g. Engineering rather than being sent back to dealers. It seems the questions are:
    1. What is the frequency of this problem among CRT's? This site has several so it could be pretty wide spread.
    2. What causes it.
    3. Can it be remedied? How and by whom?
    4. What are the long term effects of this condition? Will it get worse? Create other problems?
    5. If this is normal, why do some CRT's have it and not others? Would you tell a prospective buyer about it?
    6. Why will you not acknowledge that this is a problem and do something corporately rather than passing the buck to dealers?

    The reason I am inclined to not deal with GM again is because this is the first time I have not been able to get a problem acklowledged let alone remedied. This is a pretty expensive vehicle to be unhappy with. It is a nice car but this issue just keeps me from enjoying it. And I am afraid to take it on long trips without knowing more about this problem. So, if Cadillac wishes to do something more than send us to dealers I am open to more conversation, otherwise, time will tell.

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Quote Originally Posted by hauler View Post
    This may be way out there, but you may want to check the tire specs of the car with the problem and one with no problem, just to see if the problem car has higher traction tires. A few years ago, I switched tires on one of my Chevies to lower rated tires just to get rid of cornering noise.
    This is the problem the CTS-V has with its high performance tires by the by.

    Also, there is a huge difference in dealers and their skills. Don't cut yourself off from possible results. Hell, it took my moron dealer three times to rebuild my transmission correctly!

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Quote Originally Posted by dlpuette View Post
    Just got off the phone with the dealer. The SM said they checked it out and it's normal. I asked if ALL 4wd Cadillacs do this and she said yes. I said that's funny, because my loaner is a 4wd ATS and it exhibits none of that behaviour. She said GM has bulletins out explaining it and I'll get a copy when I pick the car up. I have a feeling we'll have a less than cordial conversation about it when I pick the car up in a few hrs.

    I'll let you know what they say and what this bulletin says.

    This is my first GM product ever. Got my first red flag on my first visit. Hope the future of my ownership get brighter!
    Hello dlpuette,

    Thank you for keeping us posted on your current situation. We are here to assist and will be on the lookout for any new updates.

    Sincerely,

    Laura M.
    Cadillac Customer Care

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bobseil View Post
    Thank you for your response and offer of a different dealer. I plan to go to a different one for my next service and will discuss it with them at that time. However, based on others experience I believe dealers are not technically able to understand or deal with issues involving the Cadillac all wheel drive system. My hope in originally contacting Cadillac directly was to perhaps get a response from someone familiar with this system, e.g. Engineering rather than being sent back to dealers. It seems the questions are:
    1. What is the frequency of this problem among CRT's? This site has several so it could be pretty wide spread.
    2. What causes it.
    3. Can it be remedied? How and by whom?
    4. What are the long term effects of this condition? Will it get worse? Create other problems?
    5. If this is normal, why do some CRT's have it and not others? Would you tell a prospective buyer about it?
    6. Why will you not acknowledge that this is a problem and do something corporately rather than passing the buck to dealers?

    The reason I am inclined to not deal with GM again is because this is the first time I have not been able to get a problem acklowledged let alone remedied. This is a pretty expensive vehicle to be unhappy with. It is a nice car but this issue just keeps me from enjoying it. And I am afraid to take it on long trips without knowing more about this problem. So, if Cadillac wishes to do something more than send us to dealers I am open to more conversation, otherwise, time will tell.
    Hello bobseil,

    I apologize but Laura or myself are not engineers or technicians and would not be able to answer these questions, which is why we direct our customers to the dealerships. We work together with the dealerships to address concerns in our customer’s vehicles and they are our point of contact in the field. Another member has stated that there are bulletins that state that what you are experiencing is normal and is not an issue. I would suggest asking to speak with the tech at the dealership to see if they would be able to explain why this is normal. I do apologize that this is keeping you from enjoying your vehicle and that you are unhappy with it. Please feel free to let me know if you would like any assistance in setting up your appointment for your second opinion. Thank you very much for your time.

    Gregory W.
    Cadillac Customer Care

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    I was going to take some time and explain what is happening but then I thought why when I will just get attacked because no one cares to listen to reason and bother to understand what the condition is.

    There is nothing wrong with the car, not every car does it because they are all a bit different. Ask the dealer to check the current going to the center clutch when the skipping is happening and find out if it is in spec, if it is too "tight" the front may want to cog a bit. The German cars do it too, but not all of them so same boat as us.

    I plan on testing but have not had the time to get to my friends shop with a tech II, in the mean time I skip along pulling in and out of parking spots not caring. I want to test full depth tires, gravel and snow. The amount of lockup to the center is the issue IMO and the solution will lie there, now there are lots of variables that go into how much and when and why the clutch will tighten up so that is my next goal. I will spend some time with the SM and see what I can find out.

    As I said each engine is different and so is each drivetrain, one car is faster one car has some skipping.

    1. Who knows, not epidemic
    2. The center clutch is tightening up not allowing the front to spin at a different speed so the front diff will want to turn both tires the same speed and the least resistance point is to slide a tire vs. breaking an axle or shaft
    3. Maybe, the dealer
    4. None I can see, should not get worse and it happens so little I can see it causing other problems
    5. Manufacturing variance between cars and clutch calibration I would think, tell a buyer that the car is normal and operation in the spec of GM?
    6. While I still think it is not a problem, maybe they should see if there is a refinement adjustment for people who can't tolerate the condition.

    If I figure it out I will post.

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Thank you c@conedoctor for the write up!! I agree that since this seems to be an issue with some cars and not others, there has to be an explanation. I find it hard to believe that hearing my tires squeal and feeling that kind of lurching and binding won't have some detrimental impact on the drivetrain reliability! Or certainly my tires!!! This is a real issue for me because I experience it several times a day with the way my driveway and garage is laid out.

    I took mine to the dealer last week and got the "its all normal" speech. They gave me a tech bulletin from GM that I've attached below. After I got home and read it in detail, i saw that the bulletin is for RWD 08-13 CTS. Mine is a AWD and it doesen't address that. It also mentions that it applies to certain suspensions and tires. I have a 13 with 18" tires and that's not mentioned. So what do I do now??

    GM Binding TSB.jpg

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    I'd call the dealer and tell him to read the bulletin again, and then contact the manufacturer for a resolution to your problem. Just sayin.

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Again it is a condition not a problem, so if your a dealer I understand your hands are not tied but how do you fix a "normal" condition and eat all the hours doing it. But as a person like me and you who are like well this sucks cause if I try and sell my car people are not going to understand it is "normal" and think it is "broken"

    I'm not worried about wear or failure because of it, the parts are all strong and not doing anything outside of the design load of the parts, IMO.

    Race season is over and I will have time to look more into it, starting with checking the settings for the clutch.

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    Conedoctor....I think you are on to something. As mentioned earlier, this is not a tire issue as mine had the original tires on the car when this started and now have replaced the tires and still experience the same symptoms. Also, as mentioned, the car did not have this problem when it was new as I'm sure Cadillac would have a hard time selling a car that drove like this. Obviously something has worn out or is not operating correctly. If nothing else there is more wear on the tires as every time you make a slow tight turn the wheels skid on the pavement wearing down the rubber. It really is a joke that Cadillac is trying to pass this off as "Normal" when the car did not do this when I purchased it. Car is going in for the timing chain issue tomorrow morning. Will report back when I hear the dealerships excuses.....

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    Re: The steering saga continues

    I don't think anything is wearing that has now caused this too happen, it would take 5 million years to wear the tires out from low speed turns

    Ok see that is the problem with this problem, I don't think anything is broken, worn or wrong so asking the dealer to fix it is pointless, this is my point.

    I'm not siding with GM or defending them or anything but I understand, being in the service business I have had to try and fix problems that did not exist for people, not working the way we think it should and not working are different.

    If I was a dealer I would not waste tons of time and throw parts at it either, no point wasting all my anger and energy hating GM and the dealers as it may not help.

    I need to stop making these long posts and get to work, I do want to fix my so it is smoove yo! Too bad Walt had an Aztec not a CTS, Heisenberg would have "helped" the dealer figure it out.

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