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The steering saga continues

40K views 106 replies 30 participants last post by  Momma up 
#1 ·
I'm going to try to keep from ranting as I'm hoping to get some advice from anyone who has had these issues before, but I'm about at my wit's end. As most of you who have read my posts over the past 7 or so months know, I've had steering issues with mine that cannot seem to be resolved. To sum them up, the first is a "skipping/binding/shudder/wheel-hop, etc." feeling whenever making slow speed turns. It's almost as if the steering is disconnected for a moment. A prime example is driving through a parking lot such as the one at your local mall, or going around a cul-de-sac such as in your neighborhood, or ever backing out of my driveway, then cutting the wheel to move forward down the road. The feeling can be felt both through the wheel and the shift lever. Additionally, if I am backing up at a slow speeds on a slight incline and cutting the feel, I also get this. Sometimes it almost feels like the trans is slipping. So, that is issue one. I've been told by the dealer that it is (a.) normal for AWD,(b.) unable to duplicate, (c.) steering gear replaced, (d.) rear diff fluid replaced per TSB, and (e.) the traction control is kicking in because one wheel is turning at a different speed when I'm making sharp turns and this is what I'm feeling. The SECOND issue I have is when making sharp turns, again a cul-de-sac is the most common place it does this. When making a sharp turn, almost to a lock, there is a crunching or rubbing noise that comes directly from the front end, pretty much directly in front of me. To make a long story short, after my last failed attempt to get the issues resolved, I called the dealer back as they asked me to let them know if I could not mark completely satisfied on the survey. When I brought it back in, the service manager went for a drive with me and I was able to duplicate the noise with him. They replaced the right front lower control arm, said the old one was rusty and the bushing was worn. So....today the car is ready and I pick it up this afternoon. Tonight I'm out and I decide to try the sharp curve where I was able to duplicate the noise with the service manager and guess what, it still does it! Nothing has changed. Oh, and I turned the traction control off to see if this would cure the other issue as well. Which of course it did not. I really appreciate the service manager taking a ride with me and the staff at the dealer has been very helpful in trying to get this resolved, but I'm not sure where to go with this now. I really want these issues fixed. I feel like I have to provide a detailed explanation of the issues each time I take it in(the service advisor remarked I always bring a very detailed note) and I don't know what else to tell them to get these issues fixed. To those of you with AWD CTSs, do your cars exhibit the same feeling mine does in slow speed turns? Any other tips or "symptoms" I can tell them? Sorry for the long post, I'm just really frustrated.
 
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#30 ·
How low is the idle? Is it below the specified idle speed? If so, they should be able to address the issue. If it's not below the specified speed, then I would understand their reluctance to raise it.

One thought I had was that maybe there were two different pumps, one for manual trans and one for auto. But a part search shows that the pump is the same for both. If the problems dissapear in Neutral and the engine speed raised with the throttle pedal, it is definately a pump pressure issue or a steering rack issue at idle speed.
 
#32 ·
I'd like to revive this thread as well. I bought a lightly used 13 AWD Perf Coupe (8K on the clock) recently and have the same issue. Low speed - forward or backward - tight turn at low speed. Feels like the differentials are trying to figure out where to send the torque. Feels like it's binding, tire chirp etc. I'm was going to wait till my first oil change to address the issue but think I need to sooner. I have this fear they're going to say its normal. If they do I'm going to demand to drive a new AWD Coupe and make them demonstrate that all of em do this. I can't for the life of me believe that the GM/Cadillac engineers released this design and thought it was okay!!
 
#34 ·
Hello dlpuette,

I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing an issue with your vehicles steering. I do see that you are thinking about taking your vehicle into the dealership sooner than your first oil change because you are concerned about this issue. If would like any assistance in working with the dealership in regards to gathering a diagnosis, please feel free to private message me. Thank you very much for your time.

Gregory W.
Cadillac Customer Care

----------

I need to find out how this AWD system works so I can figure out why this is happening, to me it feels like a diff is locking up. On mine I appear to have a sweet spot and as I turn tighter or straighten out it gets better, half way between it get worse.

I don't have brakes coming on so its not a TC issue and I don't think these cars had electronic locking diffs, as I said above I need to find out if the system is open or has a VC in the mix anywhere. My SRX does not do this and nor did my Denali but both have much different tires.
Hello conedoctor,

Have you brought this up to your dealership in regards to your CTS? I apologize that you that you are experiencing this issue as well. If you would like to further discuss your concern, please feel free to private message me so I can look into this for you. Thank you very much for your time.

Gregory W.
Cadillac Customer Care
 
#35 ·
dlpuette said:
I'd like to revive this thread as well. I bought a lightly used 13 AWD Perf Coupe (8K on the clock) recently and have the same issue. Low speed - forward or backward - tight turn at low speed. Feels like the differentials are trying to figure out where to send the torque. Feels like it's binding, tire chirp etc. I'm was going to wait till my first oil change to address the issue but think I need to sooner. I have this fear they're going to say its normal. If they do I'm going to demand to drive a new AWD Coupe and make them demonstrate that all of em do this. I can't for the life of me believe that the GM/Cadillac engineers released this design and thought it was okay!!
Most AWD vehicles due this, especially those that evenly distribute torque or are RWD biased. The only car that didn't do that was my Acura RL, but that in AWD system in that car was programmed to be FWD biased.
 
#40 ·
I'm having the exact same problems on a 2012 AWD sedan 3.0 with 40K miles. It's in the shop right now and they're changing parts. I'm in the machinery business and let metell you they're under pressure right now or whenever my car is in their shop, as I have to explain to them how certain systems work. So it's always an in depth exchange about mechanics and their technicians always end up having to go into details as to what they're doing. Will see what happens as I am picking up the car either today or Monday, and will let you know what repairs were done. Thinking about changing my name from 'Caddynut1' to something else.....
 
#42 ·
Hello caddynut1,

We are happy to have you as part of the Cadillac community on this forum. I am sorry for any vehicle issues you are experiencing, as I see your vehicle is currently in the shop. Please update us all on your repair progress just like Marv stated. I see you are located in Canada, so if additional concerns or questions arise, we are limited to how we can assist, but can get you in contact with our GM Canadian counterparts.

Sincerely,

Laura M.
Cadillac Customer Care
 
#45 ·
I have a Ford Ranger pickup with an aftermarket "locker" differential that does the same thing. Ordinarily in a tight turn all the driving comes off the inside wheel. If you gas it the differential locks and both rear wheels turn together. The locker locks and releases as the turn continues. The solution is to roll the turn like a racecar on the track and don't gas it until the corner straightens some. This lets the inside wheel do all the driving and everything is as smooth as a baby's bottom.
 
#46 ·
My laser has a welded center diff and it does the same thing, one of the diffs is doing something funny IMO.

I tried adding gas and it got better but I think it just makes the slip into a slide so you don't feel it as much, I will be taking mine out for an autoX and can report back.


Does anyone have a spec or "how this" works sheet on the CTS AWD system?
 
#49 ·
Remember if you put the spare on on the SRX it deactivates AWD. (Had a traverse do this to me on an extensive back country excursion. Suck losing AWD when I blew a Sidewall). Very disappointing people whine about performance cars performing. The AWD on my avalanche similar to the Escalade has a delay before engaging. I would rather have the tire chirping on the CtS on tight turns and the actual performance when run ing hard but apparently many owners don't wont performance over low speed drivability and gas mileage.
 
#55 ·
Well, what do you know, I have not lost my mind after all. I have the exact same problem and couldn't have stated it more clearly. Everything you describe has occurred with my 2009 AWD CTS4 which has 30,000 miles. I too got the answer "could not duplicate." Also, that it was normal. Finally, I called Cadillac hoping I could talk to someone technical who could tell me if thid had been reported by others. This person got me back in touch with the dealer. I took it in and the service representative took it for a spin and very quickly said the problem was "cupped tires." I have looked up cupped tires on the internet and mine do not look anything like the examples shown. The tread is even and with only 30,000 miles on them, I am not about to buy a new set just to find out the problem does not go away. I took it to another shop owned by a former Cadillac mechanic. He gave me bulletin 51 which says it is normal. So, I am frustrated but at least I now know that I am not alone. My guess is that Cadillac is stonewalling this to avoid a very expensive recall. Eventually I will need to trade or sell this vehicle and the problem could make that difficult. I have given up but I can tell you that after owning 3 Cadillacs, I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER purchas another. My second car is a Suburu Forester AWD which exibits none of these problems. Welcome to the ignored caddy owners club!!!
 
#58 ·
Fair enough, I have read about the same on the Audi and BMW as well.

I think the center diff is locking up, by design or the VC is just a "tighter" in some cars. I don't know if the center diff is just an open diff with a VC on it or if any electronics are in play as well, but if the center diff is not open enough it will skip something.

When going faster you don't notice because the wheel speed and more slip but going mega slow the VC can overpower the grip of the tire, has anyone tried some big circles getting faster and faster?

Now I feel bad for all the guys with lazy center VC's lol
 
#59 ·
Mine goes to the dealer next Weds for this issue. If they tell me it's normal, I'll demand to drive a new CTS4 coupe and have it exhibit the same behaviour. I can't believe GM engineers would design and sell a product that does this as part of the design.

I'll let you all know what happens
 
#60 ·
Hi Laura, Marv, and all others, well, well, here we go.

Picked up my car at the dealership and here is what happened and what I was told by the Head Tech.

They initially thought the problem was with the clutch pack at the rear diff. They realized there is no clutch pack in the rear diff but ended up removing diff to reseal it as it was leaking. Problem was not solved and I was told that the shuddering was caused by the fact that it is AWD (with power being somewhere between 75% rear and 25% front and ultimately 60% rear and 40% front. Power transfer to back and front can be anywhere between these figures. All CTS4's are not necessarily calibrated the same way.

Rear inner wheel spin is not the same as front inner wheel spin when turning and that is causing the shudder when turning. They cannot eliminate this problem.
The loaner they provided me with was a 2011, but identical with AWD and was not showing this problem at all.

I would guess the shudder is in the viscous coupling on the center diff, but that is only my opinion. The dealership cannot do anything about it.

So there's the story. No solution either for a transmission that has slipped about 5 times with engine revving at 6,000 RPM without the car acccelerating and another problem with car shutting down completely by itself at a red light. I was lucky it did not happen on the highway at 70 MPH. No solution for that problem either.

Laura, what are we all supposed to do? There has to be solutions for these problems. What answers can GM provide us with? Getting in touch with the dealership to try and help will not give the dealerships the knowledge they need to address these problems. Someone has to have the answers.......

Thanks
 
#67 ·
Hello caddynut1,

I understand your frustration with your situation. Have you contacted GM of Canada yet? Unfortunately, I cannot further assist you with your case because we are only authorized to work with United States based customers. I am providing you with the phone number for GM of Canada Cadillac Customer Assistance. The phone number is 1-888-446-2000. I am also including a contact us link for GM of Canada below. I recommend contacting them regarding any current concerns.

http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/corporate/about/contactus/overview

Sincerely,

Laura M.
Cadillac Customer Care
 
#61 ·
I have talked through PM with the GM engineer and as far as I'm concerned the shudder is normal and I am not worrying about it, there is not a problem to fix. Cars vary and some have shudder and some don't, if each engine was dyno tested I bet people would want warranty because theirs made 5 HP less than the next guys.

Yes it is a Cadillac but it is a machine first and they differ.
 
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