2008 CTS Timing chain recall? - Page 4
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 156
Like Tree10Likes
2008-2013 Cadillac CTS General Discussion Discussion, 2008 CTS Timing chain recall? in Cadillac CTS Second Generation Forum - 2008-2013; brothleutner we do not know for sure. And yes, you are right we can only speculate based on the limited ...
  1. #46
    MoFex's Avatar
    MoFex is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 08 White Diamond CTS DI RWD FE2 all options
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    metro Atlanta
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,410

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    brothleutner

    we do not know for sure. And yes, you are right we can only speculate based on the limited information we have. However, I do know that I have maintained my car religiously and changed oil more often that I needed. Still had to have timing chains changed. Yes, there is possibility that the limit for timing chains stretch was too low. What concerns me though is the fact that they are going to recalibrate the OLM. Some said that we will have to change oil every 5,000 miles or so. It tells me there is a much bigger problem than just calibration. It is quite possible there is a problem with oil circulation and chain lubrication. GM is just trying to extend the interval between chain changes. Beyond warranty period to be more prcise. Do I have a proff? No, but this is what I deducted.

  2. #47
    lordbaby's Avatar
    lordbaby is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): Cadillac CTS DI FE3 PDQ Crystal Red/Ebony
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,008

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    so one theory is that GM is trying to postpone any warning that will indicate that it is time to replace the timing chain. And as a result of this postponement, the warning will not alert us most likely until after the warranty period has passed and so the change will most likely be out of pocket?

  3. #48
    AJC165 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS DI. everything but nav.current mileage 11800 km.
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    niagara penninsula
    Posts
    84

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    i got my letter today ,,,,although they identifed my cts. as a sts. ..... the vin. number was correct so i guess it was a typo. btw my cts has a di. engine .....does anyone know how to contact the customer care and aftersales people?

  4. #49
    brothleutner's Avatar
    brothleutner is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2008 CTS 4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    348

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post

    where were you in the other long threads about this?
    one guy was claiming that the ECM recalibration was going to 'detune' his motor!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    Received the notice 2 days after having a timing chain replaced diagnosed after a check engine light - note on work order is timing chain 2mm out of alignment. Recall reset was done as well :-)

    2008 3.6DI...
    I've said my peace in those other threads. If you have the info Chris, can you see how long each chain is? If 2mm was out of spec, according to the wiki I posted, the chain would have to be about 300mm long. Just curious if we can figure out what should be the acceptable amount of stretch. There was a real formula in there as well, but length x 1.5 percent was the cheap and easy way.

    Also, I would venture to say, unless some sarcasm was meant, the sprockets would break before the chains would start to flop around under stress, as a stretched chain is extremely hard on the sprockets.

  5. #50
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
    RippyPartsDept is offline Hi, I'm Chris - Please Read My Signature
    Automobile(s): 1999 DeVille "Bianca" (white/blue, VIN-Y, 160k)
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Age
    34
    Posts
    13,837

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    yeah i just measured a chain that was still hanging around one of my technician's service bay and i'm not sure if it was a primary chain or one of the secondary chains.

    I would estimate the length at about 35 inches
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
    Rippy is a Cadillac, Hummer, Saturn & Saab dealership - family owned and operated in Wilmington, NC since 1946
    We offer all forum members deals on parts and freight - e: parts@rippyautomotive.com ph: 800-RIPPY-22
    <-- insert standard boilerplate about posts not necessarily representing my employer, etc -->

  6. #51
    caddad08's Avatar
    caddad08 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 08 CTS4 DI Hot Lava Edition PDZ AWD FE2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Fishers, IN
    Age
    60
    Posts
    402

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Here is the wikipedia info FWIW - looks like 1.5% is a normal allowance if this is correct.

    Wear

    The effect of wear on a roller chain is to increase the pitch (spacing of the links), causing the chain to grow longer. Note that this is due to wear at the pivoting pins and bushes, not from actual stretching of the metal (as does happen to some flexible steel components such as the hand-brake cable of a motor vehicle).

    With modern chains it is unusual for a chain (other than that of a bicycle) to wear until it breaks, since a worn chain leads to the rapid onset of wear on the teeth of the sprockets, with ultimate failure being the loss of all the teeth on the sprocket. The sprockets (in particular the larger of the two) suffer a grinding motion that puts a characteristic hook shape into the driven face of the teeth. (This effect is made worse by a chain improperly tensioned, but is unavoidable no matter what care is taken). The worn teeth (and chain) no longer provides smooth transmission of power and this may become evident from the noise, the vibration or (in car engines using a timing chain) the variation in ignition timing seen with a timing light. Both sprockets and chain should be replaced in these cases, since a new chain on worn sprockets will not last long. However, in less severe cases it may be possible to save the smaller of the two sprockets, since it is always the larger one that suffers the most wear. Only in very light-weight applications such as a bicycle, or in extreme cases of improper tension, will the chain normally jump off the sprockets.

    The lengthening due to wear of a chain is calculated by the following formula:

    % = ((M − (S * P)) / (S * P)) * 100

    M = the length of a number of links measured

    S = the number of links measured

    P = Pitch

    In industry, it is usual to monitor the movement of the chain tensioner (whether manual or automatic) or the exact length of a drive chain (one rule of thumb is to replace a roller chain which has elongated 3% on an adjustable drive or 1.5% on a fixed-center drive). A simpler method, particularly suitable for the cycle or motorcycle user, is to attempt to pull the chain away from the larger of the two sprockets. Any significant movement (eg making it possible to see through a gap) probably indicates a chain worn up to and beyond the limit. Sprocket damage will result if the problem is ignored.

  7. #52
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
    RippyPartsDept is offline Hi, I'm Chris - Please Read My Signature
    Automobile(s): 1999 DeVille "Bianca" (white/blue, VIN-Y, 160k)
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Age
    34
    Posts
    13,837

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    stop making so much sense!

    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
    Rippy is a Cadillac, Hummer, Saturn & Saab dealership - family owned and operated in Wilmington, NC since 1946
    We offer all forum members deals on parts and freight - e: parts@rippyautomotive.com ph: 800-RIPPY-22
    <-- insert standard boilerplate about posts not necessarily representing my employer, etc -->

  8. #53
    MoFex's Avatar
    MoFex is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 08 White Diamond CTS DI RWD FE2 all options
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    metro Atlanta
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,410

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    So the questions still remain unanswered:
    1. How much the timing chains there were replaced were "stretched"?
    2. What is the current limit for timing chains "stretch" in the ECU?
    3. Why GM is going to reprogram the OLM? What does it have to do with timing chains?

  9. #54
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
    RippyPartsDept is offline Hi, I'm Chris - Please Read My Signature
    Automobile(s): 1999 DeVille "Bianca" (white/blue, VIN-Y, 160k)
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Age
    34
    Posts
    13,837

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    all good questions... that will probably never get answered
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
    Rippy is a Cadillac, Hummer, Saturn & Saab dealership - family owned and operated in Wilmington, NC since 1946
    We offer all forum members deals on parts and freight - e: parts@rippyautomotive.com ph: 800-RIPPY-22
    <-- insert standard boilerplate about posts not necessarily representing my employer, etc -->

  10. #55
    ultimate_ed's Avatar
    ultimate_ed is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    174

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Interesting, I've not gotten any kind of recall notice (early 09 model, DI engine). I'm due for an oil change soon, so I'm wondering if I should expect something soon. I'd rather take care of things in one trip to the dealer.

    I see several have had to have timing chains replaced. What symptoms does the car exhibit that lead people to have their chains inspected, anyway?

  11. #56
    caddad08's Avatar
    caddad08 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 08 CTS4 DI Hot Lava Edition PDZ AWD FE2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Fishers, IN
    Age
    60
    Posts
    402

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    No symptoms - just the Check Engine Light

  12. #57
    brothleutner's Avatar
    brothleutner is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2008 CTS 4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    348

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    So if 35 inches is correct, that's about 900mm. We have a post that they replaced at 2mm stretch, which is .002%. 1.5% of 900mm is 13.5mm. Granted this is not 100% accurate, but should be a good ball park range. 13mm seems like a lot, but again, not an engineer here, but also, that chain is 3 ft long, so maybe?

  13. #58
    Z71's Avatar
    Z71
    Z71 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS4 Blue Diamond AWD Performance Sedan
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Michigan 'da UP'-Lake Superior
    Posts
    1,058

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    IMO this problem is an indication of the quality of the oils dealers and quick lubes are using.

    Most all of the big name oils, be they synthetic or regular mineral oil are made to a price point so that can sell more oil. These engine problems such as oil consumption and timing chain wear are the result of the oil quality being used. Where do you think the big oil companies spend the most money? R&D or marketing? Look at all the oil company ads on TV, marketing seems to be a very high priority. Since 90% of the motor oil market (published stat's) is stuck on the 3,000 mile oil change why would the big oil companies invest in making an oil that will last 10,000 miles or more? They don't is the answer because 90% of their customers change oil before 5,000 miles. Even with GM and other OEM"s raising the drain intervals very few oils companies with tell you their oil is made to last that long, I have not seen any.

    Just because the oil company calls it synthetic oil does not mean it superior but many think it is.

    Not all synthetic oils are created equal, its all in the mix. If you get your car fixed I would not use the same oils you been using before, it did not do the job it was supposed to do and for GM to revise downward the change intervals would confirm this. They must have testing that proves oil is the problem. Of course I know many believe in conspiracies so will never believe it and think oil is oil, can't be the oil.

  14. #59
    smithb is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): Cadillac
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    682

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Gee, I started a thread a few months ago about how unbelievably long the oil change intervals were for my CTS (13k + miles). People were coming out of the wood work saying how the OLM was a highly developed system proven by the SAE, and changing oil early was a waste of money. Assuming the rumors are true and this does decrease the OLM interval, I guess all the loudmouths will come out of the woodwork again to apologize and tell me I was right! I'll be here holding my breath!

  15. #60
    brothleutner's Avatar
    brothleutner is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2008 CTS 4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    348

    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z71 View Post
    IMO this problem is an indication of the quality of the oils dealers and quick lubes are using.

    Most all of the big name oils, be they synthetic or regular mineral oil are made to a price point so that can sell more oil. These engine problems such as oil consumption and timing chain wear are the result of the oil quality being used. Where do you think the big oil companies spend the most money? R&D or marketing? Look at all the oil company ads on TV, marketing seems to be a very high priority. Since 90% of the motor oil market (published stat's) is stuck on the 3,000 mile oil change why would the big oil companies invest in making an oil that will last 10,000 miles or more? They don't is the answer because 90% of their customers change oil before 5,000 miles. Even with GM and other OEM"s raising the drain intervals very few oils companies with tell you their oil is made to last that long, I have not seen any.

    Just because the oil company calls it synthetic oil does not mean it superior but many think it is.

    Not all synthetic oils are created equal, its all in the mix. If you get your car fixed I would not use the same oils you been using before, it did not do the job it was supposed to do and for GM to revise downward the change intervals would confirm this. They must have testing that proves oil is the problem. Of course I know many believe in conspiracies so will never believe it and think oil is oil, can't be the oil.

    This is not entirely true. Three links from mobil1's website. Nowhere on the site does it say any mileage for changing, not 3,000, 5,000, or any mileage. They defer to the manufactures here http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...Care_FAQs.aspx

    And heavily imply they can last well beyond what we consider normal here. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...revention.aspx

    Also the explanation of why synthetic is better is here http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ynthetics.aspx

    I'll also challenge the notion that oil companies spend so much on advertising. We use a lot of oil, they have to try to get our attention, this is the way of all business. Also, demonizing oil companies does not help our timing chain issue.

    And smithb, the most suspect thing of all is why they reset the OLM. If they would have just said, "our sensor to detect timing chain issues was set to sensitive, it was throwing codes at XXmm of stretch when XXmm of stretch is the normal amount of stretch before replacing a chain." Or something to this affect, most dudes would be fine. Unless they decided that the data they had on this engine was incomplete, or incorrect, and had it set wrong in the first place??? I'm really just grasping at anything.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting