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2008-2013 Cadillac CTS General Discussion Discussion, 2008 CTS Timing chain recall? in Cadillac CTS Second Generation Forum - 2008-2013; Yes, you should....
  1. #136
    MoFex's Avatar
    MoFex is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Yes, you should.

  2. #137
    928S is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    rockhound66,

    I'd say don't just walk away, RUN!

    One more thing, beware of any suggestion that 2007-09 CTS timing chain issues are the result of "a bad batch of timing chains" (yeah, and the dog ate my homework...lol) rather than an engine design defect resulting in inadequate lubrication in a significant number of vehicles.

  3. #138
    JBsZ06 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    CTS set P0008 code ..timing chain was fine. Ended up it was the aftermarket oil filter that the local shop used during the last quick oil change I needed on the car a month ago...

    Family member really sick and I went for a local oil change instead of the dealer...and the oil filter was cut inside as seen during inspection.

    Something about the pressure differential of the aftermarket filter possibly causing the set of P0008 code.

    Don't quote me on this. Its a theory that the GM tech gave me. The code was gone and all is good.

    I'm happy and I'll update if ever comes back..

    Thanks for the help guys..

  4. #139
    wmillar is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    It is a fact that some after market products are garbage, I've seen oil filters that once they get wet you can squeeze them and they just fall apart. I go to Walmart and buy my Mobil One oil and Fram filter for a cost of approximately $35.00, it takes me about 15 minutes to change my oil, and then you know what you have in your car. My Dealer uses synthetic oil, but it's bulk oil and I don't beleive it's Mobil One.

  5. #140
    Brian M is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    P008 is missing a number - should be four digits after the P

    the recall does shorten the oil change intervals but that's just part, the more important part is to recalibrate the tolerances for the chain stretching so the light will come on sooner than before to hopefully prevent catastrophic failure

    ignore the warning signs at your own risk... it's your prerogative
    I know he found his particular problem elsewhere, but it is still worth the correction to state that the reprogramming being discussed is to allow for GREATER timing chain stretch and after accomplishing the reprogram the light will come on LATER (or closer to failure). The GM objective is clearly to move more cars out of warranty so the individual eats the price for repairs. Can you beleive they list it as a Customer Satisfaction Program!

    Great way to build reputation with loyal Caddy owners!
    jkfcb01 likes this.

  6. #141
    JBsZ06 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    I was initially annoyed as the code came up the night before thanksgiving ...and onstar advisor suggested not driving the car because of the check engine light...

    I did check the gas cap...I did drop in a bottle of techron......I did.....consider that only a few weeks before...I had done an local tire store oil change..

    quite honestly...the GM dealership was prepared to give me a new timing chain to satisfy me...but when the tech who I trust implicitly (SP) checked the car over.....his determination and he is a world class technician ....was that the aftermarket oil filter which was cut in a few of the pleats....(but really just because it was aftermarket) did change the oil pressure enough to send the variable valve timing into realizing something was out of skew..

    My suggestion.....to those concerned...is to only use GM oil filters...and not do the less expensive local tire store oil changes..

    Normally I go to the dealer for their 100 dollar oil changes but I have had a family member ..in the ICU and then a nursing home for 3 months and my wife was daily spending 12 hours a day at her mothers bedside..she mentioned the oil life monitor in her car came on...so I quickly at 7:30 am....took the car locally for a quick oil change..

    My buddy does his wifes mercedes there and he swears by their service...but for my cadillac...I will continue my previous efforts of having the oil changed at the dealership...and at the very least always use a GM oil filter..

    There may not be anywhere near the amount of timing chain issues but rather many consumers using non OEM oil filters and they in fact may be setting the code whereby the adjustable cams or valves or whatever the hell it is....are slightly out of spec from where the computer thinks they should be at any given moment.

    I have full confidence in the vehicle although I did purchase the extended GMPP warranty for a total of 7 years as I feel thats an appropriate move considering how expensive all the cars are today...

    I have done it for all my vettes....and I will do it for my wifes CTS..

    I like the vehicle that much. I paid for the vehicle in cash when I bought it...so I consider the 1500 dollars inexpensive....to continue to enjoy the vehicle without a care in the world....(other than normal maintaince...)

    500 bucks a year amounts to less than one car payment.. (1500 for the three extra years of coverage)

    I really enjoy driving the CTS FE2 304hp silver beauty. I love my vette but driving the CTS on the streets really is a nice experience....

    Very smooth powerful powerplant... although I still believe had an LS3 powerplant been available with AWD..there is no question I would have prefered that....

    I love my LS3 in the vette...

    The industry watchers who mention that luxury car buyers want DOHC powerplants are wrong... ...as I am a luxury car buyer and I don't care about having the older design DOHC powerplant....instead of the more modern OHV design in my V8 ...

    I'd rather have the similiarl priced V8 (to produce by GM) than the more complicated DOHC design V6...

    I'm pleased with the performance and reliability of the Dohc V6.....but still want to mention...A CTS with an LS3 or gen 5 V8 would be a prefered powertrain...if it came available with AWD....

    I would have bought that...

    The wife wants AWD in her car so the CTS V (which wasn't out yet when I purchased) was really not an option...

    You'll notice Jaguar and some other luxury car maker are doing AWD in the future vehicles..

    Thats what the consumers want today and I can't complain....I have to say it is a wonderful vehicle just as it is..

    I happpen to like the interior too...Back in oct of 07 when I ordered and picked up my CTS....it was clearly beautiful and it still is. IMO

    Hope this helps allay many peoples concerns... and I apologize for leaving out the 0 when I posted the P0008 code...

    I let them do the PCM upgrade too...what do I care if I change the oil at 5000 miles instead of 8000?

    Thats really been done because americans for the most part are too stupid to check the oil every 1000 or 2000 miles...

    BMW realized this earlier and now there cars have done away with dipsticks and they just have an oil level monitoring device to notify their drivers to add a quart of oil!

    I'm sure all manufacturers are going that route...because Americans in general are in their own minds too busy to check the oil..

    And that in my opinion is the problem...


    so the moral of the story is...check the oil stupid every 1000 or 2000 miles..

    Gas stations used to do this but not in this world of self service...They used to do it to sell a quart of oil to a person buying gas..

    Anybody remember they used to check the air in your tires and wash your windshields with every fillup???

  7. #142
    928S is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    ...the reprogramming being discussed is to allow for GREATER timing chain stretch and after accomplishing the reprogram the light will come on LATER (or closer to failure). The GM objective is clearly to move more cars out of warranty so the individual eats the price for repairs. Can you beleive they list it as a Customer Satisfaction Program!

    Great way to build reputation with loyal Caddy owners!
    Well stated, Brian M.

    Not to mention the shortened Oil Change Interval, contrary to GM’s assertions that its Oil Life System saves customers time, money, and reduces oil change frequency.

  8. #143
    JBsZ06 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Not to beat a dead horse but the event of a P0008 code is NOT necessarily a timing chain stretch and then the subsequent timing chain needs to be replaced down the road.

    I thought I cleared that up in the above post but I guess not...

    The variable valve timing gear is based off of oil pressure and anything that causes the oil pressure to shift beyond original specs can cause the P0008 code to set..

    What would be the sense of changing the timing chain if in fact it has not stetched?

    The code went off not because the timing chain stretched but rather the oil pressure shifted beyond original parameters.. by changing the oil filter back to GM spec...and a week of driving there after there was no reset on the code.

    The code is set when 4 seconds of variation outside of a specific parameter.. NOT BECAUSE THE CHAIN STRETCHED..

    Common sense needs to prevail....Calling for a later failure of the timing chain is in fact an error in judgement...

    Oil pressure shift on something as simple as an aftermarket oil filter being used less than a month prior to the code P0008 being set is probably not a first time occurance for the V6 engine..

    Percentagewise....how many people had the code set...and what percentage of them did NOT have GM specific item oil filters in their cars..

    Thats the better question...and of course if people don't add oil....during the engine usuage of 8k miles...because its synethic...that also creates the issue of changes in oil pressure.

    Another interesting fact is that the PCM upgrade shortens the life of city type driving cycles whereas highway mileage is not altered or altered less.. Why?

    Again because people in America don't check their oil..

    Years ago....before synethics (SP) people changed the oil every 3000 miles....and so if they were a quart or so down....it wasn't a big deal as they were rolling in for an oil change...

    Lighter weight oils...synethics...with oil change intervals as high as 10 k miles....can cause catasphaic (SP) engine failure because the oil levels were never checked..

    thats the reasoning behind shortening the oil change interval to take into account city driving in a more accurate oil consumption manner..

    Oil pressure shifts will cause P0008 codes... NOT ALWAYS TIMING CHAINS AS BEING DISCUSSED HERE..

    THATS THE FACT PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN...

    P0008 IS NOT A TIMING CHAIN STRETCH ISSUE BUT RATHER AN OIL PRESSURE SHIFT THAT IS CAUSING THE VARIABLE VALVE TIMING TO GO OUT OF SPEC AND SET THECODE (P0008) LIGHT..

    Hope this helps.

    JB

  9. #144
    928S is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBsZ06 View Post
    (11/23/2011)...I like the caddy but knowing that I'm out of drivetrain warranty in 10 months.. with a timing chain thats not up to spec to the point that GM wants to reprogram my computer to hide the issue until the vehicle is out of warranty really pisses me off.. (and I'm a big GM fan but this is really pissing me off)

    If I had the option of buying a GM PP warranty right now I would with the problem being I'm a month past the allowable date....so basically 10 months warranty left on the drivetrain nonsense. If I don't get satisfaction with a drivetrain warranty extension or a timing chain replacment prior to the drivetrain warranty I' feel as if I need to sell this vehicle and move to a different brand...and thats after more than a quarter of a million dollars spent buying GM cars in the past decade or so.......

    Nothing pisses me off more than being a big proponent of GM and suggesting GM vehicles to others and having to sell my vehicle because GM wants to change the parameters of the computer to keep the check engine light out as a bad batch of timing changes stretch to allow engine failures.. (or whatever they want to do) Just replace the timing chain to a part that doesn't stretch would make more sense to me as the owner of the vehicle....and it should be covered under an extended warranty..
    Quote Originally Posted by JBsZ06 View Post
    (12/14/2011)...I have full confidence in the vehicle although I did purchase the extended GMPP warranty for a total of 7 years as I feel thats an appropriate move considering how expensive all the cars are today...

    I like the vehicle that much. I paid for the vehicle in cash when I bought it...so I consider the 1500 dollars inexpensive....to continue to enjoy the vehicle without a care in the world....(other than normal maintaince...)

    500 bucks a year amounts to less than one car payment.. (1500 for the three extra years of coverage)...
    Hmm...other forum members in similar situations have wanted to buy GMPP extended warranty, but could not. So, JBsZ06, how were you able to buy GMPP when your CTS was already 1 or 2 months past the allowable date of mfr’s bumper-to-bumper warranty expiration???

  10. #145
    JBsZ06 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    I don't know the answer to your question other than the guessing ...

    Sorry I can't help out..maybe I ended up buying a dealer warranty and not a GMPP? I guess I better check!!! LOL

  11. #146
    Brian M is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    This is Deja Vu --- In January I had my check engine light come on and without any action in 2 days it went out again. I just figured I'd report it when I took the car in for the next oil change.

    Last week it happened again and I had OnStar do an On demand Diagnostic report. They reported Code P0021. Car is a 2008 CTS with 26,500 miles. Since I had also received a recall for the headlight connector I gave the dealer service rep a call to see when I could get it into the shop. He said it was a significant code and I needed to get it in soon. They scheduled me for this morning 2/14/12. Guess what? - In the 5 days it took before they could take the car in, the light went out again. They confirmed that it was a code P0021 for CAM TIMING stored in memory but since it was no longer a "current code" they are not authorized to do anything about it. I'm not sure why they would bother to store it in memory if it can't be used to detect or analyse a problem???

    My car already had the "cover up" software change done in August 2011 at 19,106 miles when the light first came on. My 5 Year/100K warranty will expire in Nov 2012 with probabaly less than 32,000 miles on the car. Is it obvious what GM is trying to do to a previously loyal Caddy driver for over 20 years.

    If this known deficiency is not covered under warranty before my time is up, I plan to sell it so I don't get stuck (same logic used by GM) with the Timing Chain repair cost and then NEVER buy a Caddy again. It used to be "Pride of Ownership" but with the current "Customer Satisfaction - cover up software" it has become "Fear of Ownership". Not the GM that it was in the past!

  12. #147
    bundies is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    It seems to me they just want to keep this quiet and hope this mod keeps the chains from breaking until they're out of warranty. They had the same type of problem in the V6 Saab's. The fix was a free replacement at 60K. Dealers didn't want to honor it, but when they did they found plenty of other things that weren't covered. Even though the chain was covered the gears weren't. I had purchased an 80K car for my daughter. After a vin serch we found the chain had never been replaced. We hd to go to another state to finally find a dealer that would honor the warranty. The free replacement only cost $1100. I'm happy to say she still has the car after 7 years and it just had itts chain done again at 133K

    ----------

    Part of the reason for no dip stick is with modern filtering systems you don't have to change oil. But auto manufacturer's haven't gotten to that point. Blackhawk helicopters operating in severe conditions like afghanistan never change oil. The filtering system is so good the oil in the engine is cleaner then the oil in the can, so they only change filters and add oil. Many civilian helicopters like the 902 have similar systems. These engines are built to much more critical standards then any auto. A rebuild starts at around $200,000 and goes up....

  13. #148
    joekitch's Avatar
    joekitch is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    sorry to necropost, but was there ever developer an aftermarket timing chain that is much stronger and more resistant to stretching, when withh lack of oil?
    or possibly some bonkers engine mod that allowys more oil to flow to the timing chain?
    this seems like a permanently solvable problem

  14. #149
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
    RippyPartsDept is offline Hi, I'm Chris - Please Read My Signature
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    it's probably not profitable (or profitable enough) for anyone to develop
    ...
    or nobody can prove that it will be profitable to expend the r&d to make it happen
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at Rippy Automotive
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  15. #150
    Tbbt is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2008 CTS Timing chain recall?

    Joekitch,

    Seems that you always have questions but no answers here, and you don't even own a CTS!

    Don't you have something important to do?
    CTSCHICK likes this.

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