Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult - Page 2
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; i have this kit and the stock slave will work. if you did not install a new slave from beginning, ...
  1. #16
    verywhitedevil's Avatar
    verywhitedevil is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    i have this kit and the stock slave will work. if you did not install a new slave from beginning, it could be your slave. i installed mine without installing a new slave the first time and guess what, same problem... new slave, no problems. i have not had a problem since.

    ----------

    all i know is i did not skimp on the slave and just purchased one from Luke. no spacer.

  2. #17
    brngrhd is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Now I was sure that I read that the throw on the cts-v slave was longer then that of the ls7 slave..... Can't find it now though.....

  3. #18
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    If my measurements are way off, I'll send the OEM slave back to Amazon and look into another slave. If the LS7 (C6) slave works then I'll paypal you that slave. The difference between the the 2 slaves are evident with the Katech spacer. The Katech spacer brings the OEM slave to the length of the LS7 (slave). There is a big difference.
    The Katech spacer initially brings the stock slave to the length of the LS7 slave. Then, over the course of a few dozen or hundred clutch actuations, it totally fuses to the back the slave and the assembly becomes shorter than the LS7 slave. At that point, not only are they impossible to separate without a sawzall, but because the outer diameter of the stock throw-out bearing is slightly less than the LS7 throw-out bearing, there's a very good chance that pressure will not be applied equally to all of the pressure plate fingers, resulting in clutch pedal vibration when you lightly tap it.

    By the way, please don't interpret this as me attacking you (which many others are quick to do)--I'm simply trying to explain why I don't think your plan will work in an effort to save you time.

    Quote Originally Posted by verywhitedevil View Post
    i have this kit and the stock slave will work. [...]

    all i know is i did not skimp on the slave and just purchased one from Luke. no spacer.
    That's almost certainly because Luke sold you a LS7 slave. Do you have the packing receipt with the part number?

  4. #19
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Quote Originally Posted by brngrhd View Post
    Now I was sure that I read that the throw on the cts-v slave was longer then that of the ls7 slave..... Can't find it now though.....
    Incorrect. The LS7 slave is longer. I don't have pics to back it up but there are some floating around.

    Quote Originally Posted by verywhitedevil View Post
    i have this kit and the stock slave will work. if you did not install a new slave from beginning, it could be your slave. i installed mine without installing a new slave the first time and guess what, same problem... new slave, no problems. i have not had a problem since.

    ----------

    all i know is i did not skimp on the slave and just purchased one from Luke. no spacer.
    Yeah, unfortunately when a problem like this pops ups...more money on parts. I will use the aftermarket slave but yeah OEM is preferred but not worth the $300 for it. I should have measurements tomorrow morning when I drop the pig and find out what the problem is.

  5. #20
    brngrhd is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Yes I know it is longer as I have both but I heard the throw is was longer on the stock one.....

  6. #21
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Quote Originally Posted by brngrhd View Post
    Yes I know it is longer as I have both but I heard the throw is was longer on the stock one.....
    No idea on that since I don't have both to compare. I've already been wrong once this week so I don't dispute it. I'll know more once I drop the transmission. The aftermarket slave will arrive and I'll slap it all together if it all checks out. If the shifter still feels 'notchy', then I'll look to Katech for a solution.

    I bled another bottle and tried different techniques with no difference so I gotta drop it and investigate - unfortunately.

    Fuzzy had some input on this and suggested to adjust the pressure plate bolts - tribal knowledge with many installers. It makes sense the more I think about it.

  7. #22
    Naf's Avatar
    Naf
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    Ls7 clutch uses a ls7 slave
    Ls9 clutch uses a ls9 slave

    Is it really that hard?!

  8. #23
    brngrhd is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    Ls7 clutch uses a ls7 slave
    Ls9 clutch uses a ls9 slave

    Is it really that hard?!
    Ok smart guy what about McLeod RST? That's what I have it has an ls1 flywheel I was told ls7 slave but it doesn't operate quite perfect.

  9. #24
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    no way luke sold me a ls7 slave when i ordered the CTSV slave. really Fuzzy, that is your answer? i don't know what part i ordered. i did the install myself and i know exactly what went in the car.

    the kit uses the stock CTSV slave. Jason at Katech will confirm.

    I did not want to spend 300 on a slave either, but was not going to drop the tranny a third time in 2 weeks.

    ----------

    i did research at the time of intstall and the fact is that a CTSV dual mass flywheel and clutch equals the same height as a LS9 twin disc and flywheel. you could use a LS9 slave or the CTSV slave, but nobody has confirmed the LS9 slave will work 100% at the time i did the install.

    I took the short cut the first time and did not purchase a slave. my slave was good, why buy a new one. completed the install, nothing. bled and bled. nothing. everybody asked, did you replace your slave, even if it was not bad and i said no. Bit the bullet, called Luke and ordered the CTSV slave (i can get a copy of the invoice from LIndsey Cadillac i am sure) and did the complete install again. this time everything worked. took alot of bleeding. i mean alot, but i have had zero problems since the install.

    take it for what its worth. pretty sure Fuzzy is not running this clutch in his car

  10. #25
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Quote Originally Posted by verywhitedevil View Post
    no way luke sold me a ls7 slave when i ordered the CTSV slave. really Fuzzy, that is your answer? i don't know what part i ordered. i did the install myself and i know exactly what went in the car.

    the kit uses the stock CTSV slave. Jason at Katech will confirm.

    I did not want to spend 300 on a slave either, but was not going to drop the tranny a third time in 2 weeks.

    ----------

    i did research at the time of intstall and the fact is that a CTSV dual mass flywheel and clutch equals the same height as a LS9 twin disc and flywheel. you could use a LS9 slave or the CTSV slave, but nobody has confirmed the LS9 slave will work 100% at the time i did the install.

    I took the short cut the first time and did not purchase a slave. my slave was good, why buy a new one. completed the install, nothing. bled and bled. nothing. everybody asked, did you replace your slave, even if it was not bad and i said no. Bit the bullet, called Luke and ordered the CTSV slave (i can get a copy of the invoice from LIndsey Cadillac i am sure) and did the complete install again. this time everything worked. took alot of bleeding. i mean alot, but i have had zero problems since the install.

    take it for what its worth. pretty sure Fuzzy is not running this clutch in his car
    Yeah I would like to know which slave Luke sent you just to close the loop on that.

    I emailed Jason at Katech and he said to use the stock slave. The one that is in there has 78k miles on it so I have to replace that first before I do anything else. I don't want Katech saying it was install error and not warranty the clutch if I used a different part that was not recommended. I can't rule out that the clutch is defective.

  11. #26
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Did Jason at Katech measure the distance between the pressure plate fingers and the front of the CTS-V1 bell housing, and the distance between the front of the CTS-V1 T-56 adapter plate to the front face of the CTS-V1 throw-out bearing? Or did he just assume that our bell housing and adapter plate are the same length as the Corvette or GTO?

  12. #27
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    i am 100% positive i know which one i ordered from LUKE, i went through all this when i installed, not sure why it needs to be done again. don't believe Jason @ Katech and don't believe me that the OEM slave works. just trying to help.

    why do you say assume when I am running this clutch and slave??

    for you OP, i will call Lindsey Cadillac on Monday. I will confirm i purchased a CTSV slave. not sure why i would have ordered any other slave than that one, but i will have him fax a copy of the invoice if it is available for proof. jesus

    by the way, when i received the slave, i compared it to the one i removed and they were same height. must have been a glitch

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by brngrhd
    Ok smart guy what about McLeod RST? That's what I have it has an ls1 flywheel I was told ls7 slave but it doesn't operate quite perfect.
    If i am not using a stock clutch then it would be a ls7 slave but i havent had the need to venture to other brands just yet...

    Rps and exedy both are happy with ls7 slaves

  14. #29
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Here is stock slave ordered from Luke and installed with my LS9 kit from Katech. It works flawlessly.

    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

  15. #30
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Katech LS9x clutch install - shifter is notchy, reverse is difficult

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    Here is stock slave ordered from Luke and installed with my LS9 kit from Katech. It works flawlessly.
    Although I can't read the numbers on the side, that definitely looks like the ZR1 LS9 slave (242376634), as opposed to the Cadillac CTS-V slave (12587376). Although it's been a few years since I've seen my original slave, I believe that the LS9 slave has the improved throw-out bearing. In any event, if this works, I definitely stand corrected on the LS9x clutch slave. Looking at the Katech product page, the clutch doesn't appear to be that much taller, but Philistine had an excellent picture that really shows how monstrous this thing is:



    As a shot across the bow of Katech, I would like to note that their claim that the LS9x has "all of the benefits of a twin disk clutch and none of the trade-offs" is false. The two, primary benefits of dual disc clutches are strength and reduced rotating inertia--they have the first one, but not the second. The Katech LS9x has the the same diameter as a standard, 11.50" diameter single-disc clutch, and weighs ("8 lbs lighter than the stock Z06 clutch/flywheel assembly") 48.5 lbs. By comparison, an OEM LS7 clutch with a 13.5 lb Fidanza flywheel weighs 46.5 lbs. And the McLeod RST/RXT has a diameter of 9.69" and weighs 35.0 lbs. I did this a while back, but if inertia is your thing, here's an comparative estimate of the inertia between the LS7 and the RST/RXT. Under the same assumptions, LS9x inertia should be 22.27 lb-ft^2.

    On the other hand, if smooth operation and driveability are priorities, the LS9x looks excellent. Sprung (spring-loaded) organic friction discs and moderately high rotating inertia should make driving in stop-and-go traffic a breeze. And it'll be much easier to launch than the RST/RXT on the strip. Also, if Katech managed to solve the floater rattle (neutral chatter) issue, that's a nice feature. It bothered me enough to want to apply an acoustic dampening layer to the transmission tunnel. I'm happy to report that with the thermal/acoustic dampening that Philistine and I did, you can barely hear anything down there. And almost zero heat transfer. I used to be able to put my hand on the shifter boot after a couple of minutes of driving and feel heat rising from the tunnel. Not anymore. The shield should pay huge mileage dividends in the summer because you won't be cycling the A/C as much.

    Philistine is in for one hell of a ride when he finally drives his car. Assuming it isn't snowing by then.

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