Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Hey, So, we have cast-iron knuckles. They weigh a LOT. After talking to the lead designer at Speed Tech Performance, ...
  1. #1
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Hey,

    So, we have cast-iron knuckles. They weigh a LOT.



    After talking to the lead designer at Speed Tech Performance, he recommended that I try installing the forged aluminum spindles from a 2009-2013 CTS-V on my car (which might require purchasing second generation upper control arms, since they use a threaded bolt to hold the upright in place), or contacting LG Motorsports to see if they might consider fabricating them for us.

    What do you guys think? About 10 pounds less unsprung weight on the front wheels, plus potentially more room for larger wheels. Anyone know why this isn't possible, or why we shouldn't be pursuing this already?


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    Naf's Avatar
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    U have me interested, i will call luke and see how much the parts will set me back then if the price isnt too much i will get the parts and try ur idea out

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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Less (weight) = More (speed)

    in my book...
    2005 cadillac cts-v.r #83 nasa st3 . 2011 escalade esv . 2011 sierra denali

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    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Apparently they're $150 on eBay. My primary concern is the lower control arm through-hole. These spindles are almost certainly shorter than the V1 and will put the upper control arms in a good place for those of us that are lowered.

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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    One thing to keep in mind will be the position of the hub face relative to the iron one. If there are any changes in that area (thickness) x,y,z, position it will alter the position of the front wheel potentially making them stick out more or get sucked into the wheel well more due to differences in offset between V1 and V2 wheels.

    Another place to look into is the hub face position relative to lower control arm balljoint. This could change the camber curve during suspension loading, for better or worse.

    If everything checks out this would be an awesome mod with an OEM tested part.

    I'm assuming that the hub to knuckle bolt pattern is the same as ours?

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    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Another option would be to provide a shop with one of our uprights and ask them to build a replica using forged 7075 aluminum. With a little extra curve and an inch less height, if possible.

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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Another option would be to provide a shop with one of our uprights and ask them to build a replica using forged 7075 aluminum. With a little extra curve and an inch less height, if possible.
    I think your other option is pretty much not feasible. If you could amortize the cost of a $1million dollar tool to be able to forge these, I'm not sure that even if you had 100 people interested would be willing to pay $10,000 per upright + the cost of the material and manufacturing of parts. lol
    Also, Since you are using a different material you can't use the same shape as the cast iron ones as the material strength properties are vastly different and would definitely fail. Aluminum needs to be much thicker in some of the sections to carry the same stress levels as the Cast iron. so add another few thousand to that price to hire an engineering firm to do FEA work for you while they redesign the upright from scratch

    Also what shocks would you use if you changed the height? The travel/valving would be all wrong.

    Just something I've noticed... With all the money you've put or planning on putting into your V1 you could of had a V2 and then some, which arguably is a better performing vehicle all around especially given the shock technology it has and the easy bolt on 650rwhp mods available for it, better diff, trans... etc etc... the list is too long.

    I love my V1 for it's looks. the interior sucks and the driveline issues are quite bullshit But I'll continue driving it living with the imperfections until they push me to something else.
    I love modding cars, but it gets to a point where you want to mod the car to the level and beyond of the next gen car that exists for only 12k (used) more than what your current car is worth seems ...futile. Just my 0.02

    ----------

    A quick and relatively easy weight save would be to convert to 5lug hubs and wheels.
    Another option is you could also convert to electronic park brake, eliminating the need for internal shoes, cable, and footbrake assembly.
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Interestingly I called a guy who had a Mallet V for sale and he said the spindles were different which allow a 265 tire up front on a Mallet 9" custom front wheel. Is anyone familiar with this spindle? For those that have the Creative Steel trailing arm which easily allows a 295+ rear tire, it would be great to stuff a wider tire/wheel up front.

    To Barrok's point, I just installed Recaro Speed leather seats which are great. To address the suspension I did Bilstein specially valved coilovers which are amazing along with the Creative Steel 8.8. I know the HP will need to be addressed but if I can figure out if the LS7 500hp 427ci will pass smog in California, this would be a great project. Sorry to go off topic but just some ideas for dedicated V1 fans......
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    Mallet cuts and rewelds their spindles.

    I found these parts for 2800 with the full setup on ebay...

    A bit rich for my blood...

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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    A bit rich for my blood...
    OK, who hijacked Naf's account? There's no way he would ever post those words!
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    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

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    Dudei have a wife and son...

    Have to tone down my spendin...
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Ten pounds is a bunch.

    Selecting certain tires and certain wheels, I'd think you might be able to come close to that (though probably with compromises).

    Doing all of it (i.e. getting a 20-lb reduction in unsprung weight) would seem to have the capability to really change the handling dynamics especially for the track junkie.
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    the shocks could give you the same savings...

    I know for sure my new shocks weigh much less than stock...

    I also think its a lot of work gettin the new arm to fit our rides, not to mention you will need a new sway bar end link...

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    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    the shocks could give you the same savings...

    I know for sure my new shocks weigh much less than stock...
    Not really. As I noted here, the KW Variant 3 weighs about a pound and a half less than the FG2. Add Team Dynamics or Forgestar F14 wheels to that (22 or 24.1/24.7 lbs per wheel, versus 25 lbs stock), and you're doing a little better. But then you have to take that weight back because of the wider tires.

    The important thing to remember is that suspension components behave as both sprung and unsprung weight. For simplicity, most people assume a 50/50 distribution. If you're anal-retentive, the ratio depends on the the distribution of mass along the length of the component (which is rarely uniform).

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    Fair, i am runnin 3 pc hre wheels with full ti fasteners.

    Also runnin hollowed out spacers for i missed the offset by 3/8 of an inch all around the car

    I asked luke for the parts so lets see what comes of this idea

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