Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle? - Page 8
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; The upper Arm isnt the problem, u just need to make a new lower arm. They are the most expensive ...
  1. #106
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    The upper Arm isnt the problem, u just need to make a new lower arm. They are the most expensive with a core charge.

    It is possible, i am just not in the mind set to create a new one. I can come up with a 5mm cuttin pattern to help u all adjust a little more. There is enough steel fir 5mm but 10-15 is too much for it.

    Let me see what i get from my alterations and i will revert back...

  2. #107
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    Fuzzy

    Any progress?

  3. #108
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    I am back, and i started to shift the slot outwards so i may benefit from more negative camber.

    I increased the front by 10mm and the rear by 15mm, but i am keeping the slot opennng at 30mm total.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/69163769@N07/12878162084/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/69163769@N07/12878167204/

    Will take more pix once i get to those stages...

  4. #109
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    I am back, and i started to shift the slot outwards so i may benefit from more negative camber.

    I increased the front by 10mm and the rear by 15mm, but i am keeping the slot opennng at 30mm total.
    Wondering why you're taking out so much material. Did you measure your camber angle prior to doing this, or are you eyeballing it? The reason why I ask is because you can calculate how much longer the slots have to be:

    Roughly, the UCA and LCA mounting holes are vertically displaced by about 500mm (~20"). You might want to check that--I measured the height of the STS spindle in my house and added about an inch on either end. Per basic trig, a 10mm longer slot should give you about 1 more degree of camber capability (arctan 10/500 = 1.146°). So, for instance, if you determined earlier that the STS spindle/V2 UCA maxed out at about -1.2 degrees of camber, now you'd have the ability to go to about -2.2 degrees. If you wanted to simply add 2.0 degrees of camber, regardless of what you had earlier, you'd need about 500*tan(2.0°) = 17.5mm longer slots. Do you think you need more?

    While you're at it, would you mind measuring the shank (M14 IIRC) and underhead length of the LCA bolts? Like you, I think that it's wise to reinforce those slots once you open them up like that. Doubling the tab thickness on the outside will reduce shear stress on the bolt, as a bonus. Earlier this week, I purchased/received a 4x18" piece of 0.125" 4130 alloy steel for this very purpose. Since I will be welding one 2.25"-long piece (with slot to match) to each one of the 8 tabs, the bolt must pass through 0.250" = 6.35mm more material. Unless those bolts are longer than I remember, I think we'll want to purchase 5mm longer bolts to compensate. Otherwise there might not be enough bolt to fully thread each nut.

    For anyone else reading this--you'll definitely need to POR-15 the sanded/welded area once you're done. Otherwise your subframe will rust. Amazon sells these little $25 starter kits that should be more than adequate to do the job, twice over. They come with everything you need, including brushes and gloves.

  5. #110
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    I eye balled it, but i did use a water level stick to see if i had any negative camber before i started, I had a little but couldnt tell if it was 0.5 or 1 degree. Since i was maxed out, it couldnt be more than 5 more milli till i got the desired negative camber, leaving 5mm more for wiggle room.

    We will be fine with the 1/4" thickness. the bolts have more than enough thread to accommodate the new thickness.

    We are prepping the frame and i disconnected the pcm for murphy's law. The Tig welder is calibrated and we will tac everything in and see if i get my desired negative camber...

    Pix will come as promised, just need to take care of a few personal things...

  6. #111
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    I eye balled it, but i did use a water level stick to see if i had any negative camber before i started, I had a little but couldnt tell if it was 0.5 or 1 degree. Since i was maxed out, it couldnt be more than 5 more milli till i got the desired negative camber, leaving 5mm more for wiggle room.
    If you don't already have one, a simple magnetic angle finder is really handy in times like these. Here's the one I use.

    If you go digital, make sure you get something with a backlit screen. Because most of these things are made China, eBay is going to be your best bet.

  7. #112
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    This burns for i had a digital one, gave it to one of my workers and now its gone...We were checking to make sure the crane boom was properly leveled prior to cutting it apart...

  8. #113
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    So i did a quick check and it looks promising, am going to get my 2 degrees very comfortably now

    http://flic.kr/p/kGgUx7
    http://flic.kr/p/kGfmpa

    It may be old school but it works

  9. #114
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Out of curiosity, how long are your slots, and how big of plates did you make? Those are M14 bolts, right?

  10. #115
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    The slots are 30mm long with a 3mm thick plate that i covered the while piece with. Pretty much stock.

    I am increasing the rear slot by 5mm for more rear camber and also reinforcing them with a 3mm thick plate again the same size of the piece

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    Observation when you take apart the front suspension components it's best that you set everything up so that the lower control arm in the upper control arm our level with each other and then install the shock absorber this will help keep it where the shock absorber is a neutral tension.

    Otherwise you will have either the upper rubber bushing or the lower rubber bushing exerting too much pressure

  12. #117
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Just so I know....

    If you made a new lower control arm that the distance between the bushing mounts and the ball joint were increased by say 20 to 30mm,you could make this a bolt in swap that would offer fairly stock alignment settings, decreased unsprung weight and allow us to run say a 285 tire up front??

    Thanks for your efforts!

    ----------

    Edit that last post....

    It looks like you could extend the lower control arm to the front control arm bushing by 10mm and to the rear bushing by 15mm and this would position the ball joint about where it needs to be.

    I have to say that I am fine with elongating the bolt holes on the frame and then reinforcing them with 3mm plate but I have to say that I'm surprised you are Fuzzy after the reaming you gave Max over his drilled control arm bolts.....

  13. #118
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    Observation when you take apart the front suspension components it's best that you set everything up so that the lower control arm in the upper control arm our level with each other and then install the shock absorber this will help keep it where the shock absorber is a neutral tension.

    Otherwise you will have either the upper rubber bushing or the lower rubber bushing exerting too much pressure
    Help me understand why anything you do will hold true once the weight goes back on the car.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsv247 View Post
    It looks like you could extend the lower control arm to the front control arm bushing by 10mm and to the rear bushing by 15mm and this would position the ball joint about where it needs to be.

    I have to say that I am fine with elongating the bolt holes on the frame and then reinforcing them with 3mm plate but I have to say that I'm surprised you are Fuzzy after the reaming you gave Max over his drilled control arm bolts.....
    I've drawn up a design and will be having my local machine shop cut eight 9/16" (14.29mm) slotted tabs out of 3" long, 1/8"-thick (3.175mm) hot rolled 4130 alloy plate steel. Right now, the slots in my drawing are 50mm long, but I'll finalize the drawing when I take my wheels off tomorrow. Ideally, you'd like to have the ability to go to -3.0 degrees of camber on the front wheels to accommodate future lower control arm upgrades that may alter your geometry slightly.

    I think that machining these pieces is critical to ensure that you don't make the car a nightmare to align afterwards. Roughly-hewn slots (the kind of stuff that you'd make with a drill and a lot of patience) makes it hard to position the control arms smoothly when you're fighting the suspension for control of the wheels. Plus, 4130 steel is significantly stronger than A36--likely what the subframe is made from. If anyone else is reading this and is interested, let me know and I'll have duplicates made. It won't be cheap (maybe $75-100 including machining and shipping), but I think it'll be worth it. I can also POR-15 or powdercoat the plate if requested, but I think you're better off doing that yourself.

    ctsv247, your question seems a little bizarre. Here, we're extending a slot in the subframe, which is certainly compromising the strength of the slot near the end since you don't have as much material left there. But then we're welding a piece of superior quality plate steel onto it that's twice as thick. The result is a subframe mounting point that is vastly stronger in that area than it was previously.

  14. #119
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Bizarre? I've seen a lot of drilled suspension bolts over the years but modifying a frame is a bit more "outside the box" shall I say.

    While I'm not there with you to complete this picture in my mind, I would reinforce the entire control arm mount area while you have it apart but I haven't thought this through as deeply as you have. I spent a lot of time off-roading trucks and it seemed to me that every time I thought I was being smart modifying one part of the frame, I usually unlocked weaknesses elsewhere and before it was all said and done, I had boxed the entire thing.

    Weld on soldier.

    ----------

    Almost forgot....based on your up close and personal experience with this project, how hard would it be to make a tubular lower control arm to make this a bolt on. In my current situation, it would be much easier to have all the fab work done off the car and not on it.

    Thanks!

  15. #120
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsv247 View Post
    While I'm not there with you to complete this picture in my mind, I would reinforce the entire control arm mount area while you have it apart but I haven't thought this through as deeply as you have.
    Oh, I'm definitely going to be maximizing the size of the plate to provide the largest welding surface possible.

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