Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle? - Page 7
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Started... It works but just barely. I have a slight negative camber, but i had to reuse the top upper ...
  1. #91
    Naf's Avatar
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Started...

    It works but just barely. I have a slight negative camber, but i had to reuse the top upper arm mount, and just change the arm. You will need longer bolts for the hubs, about 10mm. You reuse all the heat protection between the hub and the knuckle.

    The steering point is slightly shorter offering more turning at lower effort from the wheel.

    I am waiting on new hardware for the hub, but i basically have it all in. I will be trimming the lower arm mounting holes a little, giving me more adjustment for negative camber...

    Good luck gentleman, it is possible...

    Before Pix

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/69163769@N07/12650702325/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/6916376...n/photostream/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/6916376...n/photostream/

    After Pix

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/6916376...n/photostream/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/6916376...n/photostream/

  2. #92
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    If I would have known you were going to do this, I would have warned you about the hub bolts. The stock heat shield won't fit unless you bend the crap out of it or cut the ABS sensor mounting tab off.

    Are you saying that you have less negative camber than before? Because you shouldn't have to eyeball it--one look at the length of the V2 UCAs vs the V1 UCAs should tell you that. My biggest concern is the position of the UCAs relative to the top of the wheel well. Will it hit? If not, you should notice that your dynamic negative camber gain is greatly increased.

    If you have too much negative camber, drilling the slots is a perfectly acceptable solution, but so is using the longer STS UCAs. However, those do not have that great offset for caster.

  3. #93
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    You cannot use the lower control arm (UCA) from the sts as the shock absorber doesnt bolt on the same way.

    Using the stock UCA I have substantially less negative camber, and positive caster. I will look to trim and strengthen the mounts with some 2mm flatbar welded on. Giving me about 10mm more outwards movement to give me more negative camber and not alter the already positive caster. (the knuckle is sweeping much further backwards then before)

    I will have to trim a little off the inside of the knuckle so my swaybay and endlinks dont get in touch with it whilst moving. In the loaded position it all clears, but if i lower the wheel, to mimic the extension of the suspension while in a turn, the swaybar and endlink touch the knuckle slightly.

    I am waiting on hardware so i am at a standstill till i get back...My earliest report will be on Sunday the 2nd of march...

    You will have to shorten the length for the steering rod ends for they give wicked toe out.

    I am ordering the left upper mount from luke for i dont feel like using used busings on my ride, but they are available on ebay for about $80. You just need the arm from the mount, also BEFORE YOU take the arm off the mount mark its position and install the new arm in the same angle. I didnt do it to mine Twice, and now i have to measure the left side to find the correct installed height.

    Good idea, but like all great mods, you have to be patient and work the bugs out of it...

    Good call on the sts knuckle, i would have given up....

  4. #94
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    What you said about measuring the angle of the arm doesn't make sense to me. You should just have to replace the V1 UCA with the V2 UCA, then attach the spindle and rotate the UCA to connect to the spindle.

    Since I'm having a guy come in and do the welded modifications to my rear subframe to accommodate the GeForce 9", I may take that opportunity to ask him to weld flat bar to the lower control arm mounting points. But I'll need to get measurements for the slot (IIRC, it's 14mm) and have everything ready for when he arrives.

  5. #95
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    The V2 UCA bolts in from the top vs the bottom. Also the mounting position for the V2 UCA is diff by 19mm.

    I am going to make the adjustment slots longer so i am able to gain more negative camber and reinforce them with 3mm angle bars welding them to the top and bottom for more rigidness.

    The V2 UCA could work, but you need another knuckle. I rather keep the V1 UCA and increase the adjustments. 10mm in the front and 15mm in the rear

    ----------

    For the upper mount, measure the height from the top of the wheel well to the top of the arm near the ball joint in the relaxed position, when you replace the arm you lose its placement for the rubber bushings add suspension tension as you lift the arm upwards.

    This way you get the same tension, and your movement is also the same.

  6. #96
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    The V2 UCA bolts in from the top vs the bottom. Also the mounting position for the V2 UCA is diff by 19mm.

    I am going to make the adjustment slots longer so i am able to gain more negative camber and reinforce them with 3mm angle bars welding them to the top and bottom for more rigidness.

    The V2 UCA could work, but you need another knuckle. I rather keep the V1 UCA and increase the adjustments. 10mm in the front and 15mm in the rear

    ----------

    For the upper mount, measure the height from the top of the wheel well to the top of the arm near the ball joint in the relaxed position, when you replace the arm you lose its placement for the rubber bushings add suspension tension as you lift the arm upwards.

    This way you get the same tension, and your movement is also the same.
    Maybe what you're saying will make sense when I install it, but it feels like you're talking about a different car. I'll state what I know, along with my assumptions. If you see something you disagree with, let me know:

    The V2 UCA bolts to the V1 yoke with no modifications required. The ball joint on the V2 UCA is offset relative to the V1 UCA, and provides several extra degrees of caster. It requires a M12-1.75 Class 10.9 nut to fasten it to the spindle.

    The rest of what you're saying sounds like you're fighting the OEM bushings on the UCA instead of tightening them after the spindle is attached.

  7. #97
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    I thought the the STS spindles wouldn't work with the V1 upper control arm, so you had to use the STS upper control arm? I'm confused.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC
    I thought the the STS spindles wouldn't work with the V1 upper control arm, so you had to use the STS upper control arm? I'm confused.
    I used the v2 upper arm in the v1 upper mount. This way i get some negative camber and still get the backward sweep

    I have a v2 uca it has the ball joint piontin down. My v1 uca has a ball joint pointin up which i used with my sts knuckle. The sts knuckle ball joint slot is shorter than the stock knuckle thus takin my camber away from me. To repeat i only used the arm of the v2 upper mount and reused the v1 bracket.

    The v2 uca bushings are smaller than the stock and u will need to use a 19mm spacer to fill the void.

    I have my fab guys extendin the camber slots by 10mm for the front holes and 15mm for the rear holes. I also have them strengthening the rear lower arm slots as well as they are too thin.

    Will post pix of my job after i get back

  9. #99
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    I used the v2 upper arm in the v1 upper mount. This way i get some negative camber and still get the backward sweep
    Expected. The CTS-V1, STS, and CTS-V2 all have the same yoke ear separation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    I have a v2 uca it has the ball joint piontin down. My v1 uca has a ball joint pointin up which i used with my sts knuckle. The sts knuckle ball joint slot is shorter than the stock knuckle thus takin my camber away from me. To repeat i only used the arm of the v2 upper mount and reused the v1 bracket.
    All UCAs have the ball joint pointing down. It sounds like you replaced the V1 UCA ball joint with a STS/V2 threaded ball joint, but you installed it backwards. That shouldn't work because STS/V2 threaded ball joints feature a 37 degree flared bushing that mates with the inverse on the top of the spindle. I have no idea what you mean by "knuckle slot." The only slots in the front suspension are the slots in the subframe where the LCAs bolt on. Those are used to adjust camber.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    The v2 uca bushings are smaller than the stock and u will need to use a 19mm spacer to fill the void.
    Are you sure about that? The aluminum portion of the V2 UCAs appear to be the exact same thickness as the V1 and the STS UCAs, meaning that Revshift bushings (if you have them) can be transplanted from your V1 UCAs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    I have my fab guys extendin the camber slots by 10mm for the front holes and 15mm for the rear holes. I also have them strengthening the rear lower arm slots as well as they are too thin.
    I have 1/8" (3.175mm) 4130 alloy steel plate on order to permit me to play with that too. I'm a little bit confused about the lack of negative caster, since I held the V2 UCAs directly underneath my V1 UCAs and only noted how the ball joint was offset toward the back of the car. Unless there's some interaction between the spindle and the V2 UCA that I didn't catch, or the angle machined into the spindle is significantly different than the V1 and I didn't notice, I'm predicting that up to +7.0 degrees of caster should be possible with -1.5 to -2.0 degrees camber. If welding plates onto the subframe is necessary, that will mandate custom, wider LCA bushings (which Revshift can make) and increase front trackwidth. It's a good thing I'm having larger fender flares fabricated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    Will post pix of my job after i get back
    That would be helpful.

  10. #100
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    The knuckle slot is the place where the uca ball joint slips in and the nut tightens on to.

    I wish i took more pix but i am packin now and the car is 30mi away...

    The sts knuckle i have bolts perfectly onto my stock uca. Thats the reason i bought it. Less new parts and more plug and play

  11. #101
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    But when you say slot, it's a round hole, not a slot right?

  12. #102
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    Yes the cone shaped hole that looks round from the bottom...

  13. #103
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    It's a slot, it's a hole, it's a cone.....you guys are killing me. LMAO

  14. #104
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    Its hard to visualize text.. Plus we have different terms for the same thing...

    Ask away fuzzy

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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Would it be possible to make a tubular upper control arm that would make this a bolt in swap without the need for welding in supports or reworking alignment slots while still keeping "stockish" alignment settings?

    And, just so I understand, if you could easily make a replacement control arm, would this spindle swap not only reduce unsprung weight but allow for a wider rim/tire combo up front?

    If this is the case, could I pay you to make me some kind of template to work off of so I could have some control arms made?

    Thanks for your efforts at pushing this forward!!!

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