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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Thanks for taking the time to push this forward....
  1. #61
    ctsv247 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Thanks for taking the time to push this forward.

  2. #62
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Teardown for the STS-V spindle / RacingBrake swap is occurring right now. I'm using a set of V2 upper control arms (UCAs). The V2 UCAs are better than the STS-V UCAs in every way. All three UCAs appear to use the exact same bushings, so aftermarket bushings (e.g. Revshift products) can be transferred from one to the other.

    Side-by-side spindle comparisons elicited a mixed reaction from me. The STS-V spindle is almost 1" taller than the CTS-V spindle. The camber angle is probably going to be 1-2 degrees less for a given lower control arm (LCA) setting. The caster angle is going to be 2-4 degrees more due to the offset on the V2 UCAs. Wheel clearance looks sufficient to support 10" Forgestar wheels. Pictures and hard data to follow in the next 24-48 hours.

  3. #63
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Fuzzy,

    I have to commend you on your persistance, but you have to look on how the setup links together...You need the top arm / mount which will fit with out a problem from the V2, but the bottom arm will be your down fall.

    If i am not mistaken, on the v1 we have the bolt on the bottom not the top for the lower arm to spindle. Not to mention you will have an issue with the swaybar links. This part looks very familiar to the V2 spindle, in almost every way...

  4. #64
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naf View Post
    Fuzzy,

    I have to commend you on your persistance, but you have to look on how the setup links together...You need the top arm / mount which will fit with out a problem from the V2, but the bottom arm will be your down fall.

    If i am not mistaken, on the v1 we have the bolt on the bottom not the top for the lower arm to spindle. Not to mention you will have an issue with the swaybar links. This part looks very familiar to the V2 spindle, in almost every way...
    The STS-V spindle is very similar to the V1 spindle. As I mentioned earlier, the LCA through-hole on the STS-V spindle is identical to the V1. So, there's no need to replace the V1 LCAs with STS-V or V2 LCAs. Sway bar endlinks aren't a concern.

  5. #65
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Only had time for a test fit today. Everything appears to check out. For a more thorough report, see this post. Fully assembled spindle/hub weight comparison:
    • V1 spindle, OEM hub, ARP 100-7708 studs, Grade 10.9 M12-1.75x50 fasteners, front shield = 21.8 lbs
    • STS-V spindle, SKF X-Tracker hub, ARP 100-7708 studs, Grade 10.9 M12-1.75x70 bolts, front and rear shields: 18.0 lbs (-3.8 lbs)
    Preliminary measurements from top of wheel bearing flange and to the upper ball joint hole:
    • V1 spindle extends 11" upwards (dead vertical) and 5" inwards (to ball joint), providing about 5" clearance where rim of wheel would land
    • STS-V spindle extends 12.5" upwards (dead vertical) and 5.75" inwards (to ball joint), providing about 6" of clearance where rim of wheel would land













    ----------

    Before I forget, you'll need two M12-1.75, Grade 10.9 nuts for the V2 upper control arms. I recommend trying a batch from this place. As far as I know, there's no way to buy a smaller package of them. You can take advantage of these extra nuts if you opt to buy an extra pack of M12-1.75x70mm bolts for your OEM driveshaft. Since you'll need 6 of them for the STS-V spindles anyway, three bags of bolts from this vendor will leave you with four leftover bolts and two nuts.

  6. #66
    serik is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Did you happen to check on the v2 spindle the hub size weather its the same as v1? In other words it would be nice if we could use v2 hubs disc and brakes instead of the corvette swap.

  7. #67
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    I like where this is goin, the only issue is whether or not the extra inch will cause alignment issues down the road.

    Fitment is identical and you will be able to run wider tires upfront. Currently i am runnin 285 upfront and squeezing 305 in the rear. If i am able to run all 305 tires i am gonna be the happiest man alive... Just need to buy more 305s and another two sets of wheel lips from HRE.

    Let us know, and Pn for the spindles are 18064146 and 18064147. Heat shields are a little more complicated, i am goin to use the V2 as they protect the steering knuckle, and V1 which protects the lower ball joint.

  8. #68
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    The front V2 heat shields are clocked incorrectly to do their job well. You'll get some benefit from them, but frankly, you're better off going with spindle ducts, which will hit both areas at the same time.

  9. #69
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    I gave up on the spindle duct project. To route the hoses so i get fresh air, then have my oil cooler, my PS cooler, and my Tranny cooler and, LS7 dry sump return line hoses all in the mix was too much...

    And i couldnt just install the spindle duct on its own...Didnt seem right

  10. #70
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    Any new news?

  11. #71
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    STS-V spindle, SKF X-Tracker hub, ARP 100-7708 studs, Grade 10.9 M12-1.75x70 bolts, front and rear shields: 18.0 lbs (-3.8 lbs)
    I don't think it matters that it's from an STS-V. Searching for the part numbers that Naf posted it appears the spindles are the same whether they're V or non-V. (As far as I know that's the case with CTS and CTS-V knuckles, too, so not surprising.) Plenty of regular STS spindles on ebay or car-part.com.

    The next question is whether the V2 upper control arms are any different from the '08+ V6 upper control arms. Again, would make finding parts easier/cheaper.
    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

  12. #72
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    I don't think it matters that it's from an STS-V. Searching for the part numbers that Naf posted it appears the spindles are the same whether they're V or non-V.
    That doesn't match what I saw on eBay. Here's an example of an STS spindle, marked 05-11:



    As you can see, this design has transitioned to the inverted lower control arm.

  13. #73
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Interesting. Looking at this site (I just randomly choose 2009, but they have diagrams for the other years, too) they're showing that ^^^ style for the AWD STS (with a PN of 18064126), and the 18064146 style for the non-AWD STS.

    The third drawing on that link has a listing for "STS, STS-V; w/AWD" and "STS, STS-V; w/o AWD", so maybe their drawings and part numbers are AFU? (Since there obviously was no AWD STS-V.)

  14. #74
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    Interesting. Looking at this site (I just randomly choose 2009, but they have diagrams for the other years, too) they're showing that ^^^ style for the AWD STS (with a PN of 18064126), and the 18064146 style for the non-AWD STS.

    The third drawing on that link has a listing for "STS, STS-V; w/AWD" and "STS, STS-V; w/o AWD", so maybe their drawings and part numbers are AFU? (Since there obviously was no AWD STS-V.)
    Weird. Neither of those parts match the part numbers on my spindles. 18079801EA (left) and 18079802EA (right). Unfortunately, all of the GMPartsDirect-like places have stopped publishing part numbers on their catalogs to avoid comparison shopping, so it's hard for me to get into the system and find something you can plug and chug.

    In related news, it's 19 degrees outside, so I'm thinking we're still a week away from me installing these on the car. Unless I get really, really bored tomorrow.

    ----------

    Based on some eBay research, I think I might've figured it out. The RWD spindles are the correct ones. The AWD spindles require the inverted lower control arm, which are incompatible with the CTS-V1. Check out the following two auctions--RWD STS spindle and AWD STS spindle--from the same guy.

    So, in summary, we want the 18064126 and 18064127 spindles, NOT the 18064146 and 18064147 spindles. The --26 and --27 match #19 on the following chart:



    Pay close attention to #33. Apparently, that inverted loop was originally a separate piece, until GM made it part of the spindle casting.

    AAIIC, if you're trying to grab these things used, there's a right-hand spindle to go with the left one here. If you're willing to take a risk and buy something without pictures, there are two additional sets available here (left and right) and here (left and right). I got my spindles for $185, all told.

  15. #75
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    Re: Unsprung Weight Reduction: 09-13 Forged Aluminum Knuckle?

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Unfortunately, all of the GMPartsDirect-like places have stopped publishing part numbers on their catalogs to avoid comparison shopping, so it's hard for me to get into the system and find something you can plug and chug.
    I have been able to get GM part numbers by going to the GM Parts Direct alternative website http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/catalog...TOKEN=48422024. To get the part number you need to add the part in question to the cart and proceed to check out as if you intended to buy it. Within that process you are asked to provide a vin so the part can be verified - you do not need to give it a vin but you will have to type "I AGREE" to a disclaimer. You will need to do the type "I AGREE"-thing twice to complete the override. It will then show the cart with part numbers.
    FuzzyLogic likes this.

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