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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, About to upgrade brakes in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; After finding out more on the calipers in the AP Racing kit (CP7040), I'm going with a v2 setup. I ...
  1. #16
    jclayc's Avatar
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    After finding out more on the calipers in the AP Racing kit (CP7040), I'm going with a v2 setup. I believe the AP Racing calipers have been race proven and must be better than the v2 calipers but mathematically and with no basis to fault the v2 calipers, the v2 setup is the choice.

    370mm rotors on the v2; 362mm on the AP Racing kit
    30, 34 & 38mm pistons on the v2; 27, 32 & 38mm pistons on the AP Racing calipers
    About a 25% bigger pad on the v2
    No knockback springs on the CP7040 calipers
    Only mod to fit the v2 calipers is to drill out 2 holes a bit
    Replacement rings and pads are about equal cost
    thebigjimsho and barrok69 like this.

  2. #17
    Jeff James is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    another option would be the Performance Friction Caliper set (if still available). The pad size for any six piston caliper will basically be the same regardless of caliper make or lineage. The AP stuff is awesome as is the Brembo race stuff. Baer has what used to be ALCON, also excellent racing stuff but most REAL race calipers are Radial mount and REQUIRE special expensive brackets.
    The V2 calipers IMOHO should be more than adequate with a good pad AND these fit in the OE 18" wheels. <<<<< This is your biggest hurdle.
    As for rotors, as mentioned above, look into the ZR1 Car/Cer and since you will save big$ going with the V2 calipers, and are concerned with drilling the 5-6 pattern, have replacement hats made. I am sure that one of the vendors here will be happy to work with you in order to have those pieces available. They could sell a bunch of these,especially if they worked with car/cer and Iron floating rotors. You should be under the $2500.00 number and be way ahead in Performance. In an iron rotor,C/D or slotting does help in a race application and both Rotors AND Pads are consumables. from a wear standpoint, the Car/Cer will hold up way better than any iron rotor. The V2 OE 2 pc. my be the best way to go but you still have to deal with the B/C issue. These are aluminum and are stronger than modified cast iron.

  3. #18
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    Updating this thread with a new question: I went with the v2 calipers and 2pc rotors from racingbrake (using SKF hubs). When bolting it all back together, the inside face of the rotor comes in contact with the caliper (see pics below). Anyone else run into this? If I'm able to move the rotor outward by even a few millimeters, it would be enough for the rotor to rotate. Thoughts on putting six washers between the hub and rotor?




    here's a pic showing the spacing between the outer side of the rotor and the caliper:

  4. #19
    Jeff James is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    Essex Co, We have a problem!!! Either the hubs are not right or the RB Hats are not right. Try assembling with the OE Hubs first to check those. If you have the same issue, the hats are too short by a smidge (technical term). If you have good quality shims (Aircraft washers or SS Shim washers, a couple is OK but I would be hesitant to use too many. Find out where the problem is first.

  5. #20
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    Seeing how others have run the same RB rotors with the v2 calipers and I haven't read about a problem, I've got to assume its some small difference in the skf hubs vs the stock hubs. Taking everything back apart, taking the hubs out and measuring against the stock hubs is the way to prove this but, even if I do, I'm not ditching the skf hubs so... One 10.9 12M washer on each of the lug studs between the hub and rotor is my likely solution. One washer width seems to provide the 2-3mm gap I need.

    Oh, and there was a question about what caliper bolt length would work w/o clearance problems. The v2 bolts are 56.5mm. I'm using 55mm bolts instead and they clear. A 50mm would do fine. A 45mm bolt looks like it'd be a bit short. The knuckle is 23.5mm wide. The caliper bolt holes are 23mm deep/wide.

  6. #21
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    Clay, I checked the comparison pictures of the SKF hubs and the stock hubs and couldn't find a difference. Can you measure the airgap between the rotor and the caliper? I grabbed a caliper and measured my 355mm RB ring, and came up with 8.77mm. Using the Mark 0 Eyeball, I estimate that you have 4-5mm of airgap there. I contacted MIGHTYMOUSE to see if he'll make us a couple pairs of 2-3mm spacers, but I don't know if he has thin enough material (or the inclination).

    Here are your pictures of the BR930537 (the front SKF X-Tracker hub):





    And here are musclebird05's pictures of the BR930539 (the rear SKF X-Tracker hub):









    Production picture differences (BR930537 left with the grey cord, BR930539 right with the white cord)








  7. #22
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    Here are bolts for reference - top to bottom: v1 front caliper bolts, v2 front caliper bolts & 50mm socket cap bolts for reference (I didn't use socket cap)



    ----------

    Took some measurements - the rotors are 34.19mm thick. I put M12 10.9 washers on the lug studs that are 2.52mm thick, bolted everything back together and I measured a 2.5mm air gap on each side of the rotor. I can take things back apart tomorrow and measure w/o the washers but my guess is the gaps are 0mm and 5mm "uncorrected".

  8. #23
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    On the subject of the bolts: would you recommend just using V2 bolts? Or if not, which length do you think would be best? Were the lengths that you measured underhead?

    The 45mm bolts came in today, and they're so pretty. It's sad that I'm going to have to put them in the recycling bin.

    I measured one of my 355mm rings, and it came out to 30.03mm thick. You must have the 370mm rings. That explains the problem right there.

    Finally, I would try to avoid using washers because cornering loads are going to be concentrated along a very small area there.

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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    Yep, I have the 370mm rotors. Re: the washers - here's my quandary: I have Sat and Sunday track days... I doubt I'll have time to source or fab 2.5mm under-rotor spacers. I guess I could run my 355mm 2pc Coleman's up front and shelve the 370s for now... You think even 10.9 washers would squash? (Don't you love when you give an answer and people re-ask you the same question?)

    Yes, those are underhead measurements. The 1.5mm difference in the 56.5mm v2 bolts and the 55mm ones I have bolted up gives me a bit of clearance I like. V2 bolts might work but itll be close. 50mm would be ok. 45 might not make it all the way through. If you want my set of v2 bolts just let me know.

  10. #25
    OneFast V is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    Have you contacted racing brake yet?

  11. #26
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    Quote Originally Posted by jclayc View Post
    Yep, I have the 370mm rotors. Re: the washers - here's my quandary: I have Sat and Sunday track days... I doubt I'll have time to source or fab 2.5mm under-rotor spacers. I guess I could run my 355mm 2pc Coleman's up front and shelve the 370s for now... You think even 10.9 washers would squash? (Don't you love when you give an answer and people re-ask you the same question?)

    Yes, those are underhead measurements. The 1.5mm difference in the 56.5mm v2 bolts and the 55mm ones I have bolted up gives me a bit of clearance I like. V2 bolts might work but itll be close. 50mm would be ok. 45 might not make it all the way through. If you want my set of v2 bolts just let me know.
    I re-asked the question because I wanted to make absolutely sure that we were on the same page. I'll send you a refund on the bolts shortly.

    Will Grade 10.9 washers warp or compress under 4800 lbs of force (4000 lbs * 1.2G)? I don't know. Compressive strength figures aren't available for Grade 10.9 bolts. It's never safe to assume that tensile strength is the same as compressive strength (just look at concrete!). Either way, I don't want to find out. I'd rather use a full-sized aluminum spacer, which I know will not compress because I've been running them on my car for at least a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFast V View Post
    Have you contacted racing brake yet?
    Probably not worth it. They probably tested the 370mm rotor with the V1 brake calipers, and it worked fine. Asking them to re-design the part so that we can run V2 calipers unmodified is a low-percentage game.

  12. #27
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    *L* I was saying the "ask twice" thing about me asking you 2x about the washers. Don't sweat the bolt money - buy yourself a 12 pack.

    RB does market the 370s as being for the v1 to run v2 calipers - can't hurt to call.

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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    I re-asked the question because I wanted to make absolutely sure that we were on the same page. I'll send you a refund on the bolts shortly.

    Will Grade 10.9 washers warp or compress under 4800 lbs of force (4000 lbs * 1.2G)? I don't know. Compressive strength figures aren't available for Grade 10.9 bolts. It's never safe to assume that tensile strength is the same as compressive strength (just look at concrete!). Either way, I don't want to find out. I'd rather use a full-sized aluminum spacer, which I know will not compress because I've been running them on my car for at least a year.
    Compressive strength is ALWAYS higher than tensile strength. It is extremely harder to compress atoms than it is to separate them.


    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Probably not worth it. They probably tested the 370mm rotor with the V1 brake calipers, and it worked fine. Asking them to re-design the part so that we can run V2 calipers unmodified is a low-percentage game.
    If you look on the website they are specifically listed for V1 with V2 caliper upgrade so they were definitely designed and intended for V2 calipers. I am very hard pressed to believe the V1 calipers would even fit over the v2 size rotors.

  14. #29
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    I have that same combo on my car - SKF hubs, RB 2-piece rotors, V2 calipers. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one doing so. No caliper-to-rotor interference here. I am running my brake cooling ducts, which go between the hub and spindle in place of that thin metal bracket/shield that holds the ABS wheel sensor harness; the aluminum of the brake cooling ducts is a bit thicker than the original steel bracket was, but probably not even a millimeter difference I would guess.

    I've never specifically looked to see how well the rotors are centered in the calipers, but based on a few pad changes I can't say I've noticed any offset one way or the other. If you had discovered this a couple days ago I had a wheel off and could've taken a look.

  15. #30
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    Re: About to upgrade brakes

    yeah, I have no idea why I'm getting interference. The only difference in what I'm running and what AAIIIC has is that I'm not running the steel abs sensor brackets between the spindle and hub & not running my aluminum cooling ducts between either - that 1-2mm may be the difference. Regardless, I've got two plans:
    - I ordered 3mm wheel spacers I will drill for 6x115 and reduce in diameter enough to fit inside the rotor hats
    - I ordered a small 7075 0.1" aluminum sheet that I'll cut to fit

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