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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, pig in slop in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Originally Posted by sssnake Guys you are missing my point on the BAP. You don't have to turn the voltage ...
  1. #106
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by sssnake View Post
    Guys you are missing my point on the BAP. You don't have to turn the voltage up to get the extra voltage regulation. Adding a BAP is in effect adding a tightly regulated dc to dc power supply. It is a ton cheaper to run than an extra battery and will likely produce better results (depends on the batteries, there locations, and the wiring). It will definitely be lighter. How many more horsepower do you have to make to offset gaining 75 lbs worth of battery, wiring, and mounting hardware?
    Sorry, I should have responded immediately. I think you're absolutely correct in that using a BAP to regulate the line voltage is a great idea. A DC-DC converter can have an unfiltered bandwidth of 100 Hz, or somewhere in the 10-20 Hz range if you slap a low-pass filter on the front end. I plan on installing one, but I need to look at a couple of different models and mounting solutions as part of my Big 3 and alternator upgrade. Ideally, I'd like to filter the output of the alternator and install the regulator as close to the bucket as possible.

    By the way, hopefully you weren't implying with that "75 lbs" statement that you think that a BAP is all that's necessary to achieve the kind of transient performance we need. Increasing voltage excitation to a brushless DC motor to increase throughput puts a lot of stress on the pump and the electrical system because motor torque is linearly related to current.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post

    By the way, hopefully you weren't implying with that "75 lbs" statement that you think that a BAP is all that's necessary to achieve the kind of transient performance we need. Increasing voltage excitation to a brushless DC motor to increase throughput puts a lot of stress on the pump and the electrical system because motor torque is linearly related to current.
    Nope just trying to suggest that a dual battery solution is likely not the most efficient. After weighing options my choice was a larger battery, relocated to the trunk, with BAP for the electrical.

    I am still torn on the fluid flow side about going to a full return type system. I am not interested in breaking 700hp so what I have is likely OK but I want to look at a few data logs to be sure. After seeing this thread I will likely just take the plunge.

  3. #108
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    Re: pig in slop

    Sooooo......much in this thread. How do I make one of those gay heart symbols? <3 Ahh...there we go.

  4. #109
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by nikdsctsv View Post
    Sooooo......much in this thread. How do I make one of those gay heart symbols? <3 Ahh...there we go.
    For at least a year after girls started using that symbol, I thought it was supposed to represent boobs, not a heart. Turns out I was looking at it upside down.

  5. #110
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    Re: pig in slop

    Now I remember why I named this thread - I got about 200 ft of wiring and electrical crap all over my garage. Just got back from travel and opened all my packages that ordered before I left...only to find that I need to order more stuff!!! My hobbs switch came in and I was so focused on other things that I forgot to order the vacuum manifold, grrr! After investigating the brake booster line, I think the OEM boys shopped in the BBW isle - I gotta splice that thing for my vacuum manifold.

    On a positive note the "riv-nuts" work like a charm and mounted the relays in a nice spot. My instincts are telling me to run the hotwire inside the car vs. outside under the frame. It's more work but it doesn't matter at this point.

  6. #111
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    Re: pig in slop

    Running the wire inside the car is a problem because you have to get through the firewall. It's going to make inspecting the cable very hard. If you want me to dig up a picture of how to route cables through the driver's side grommet, let me know. Just note that I've been running the Racetronix kit parallel to the fuel lines for 12-18 months with no degradation, other than a little fading of the pigment. The kit is advertised as weatherproof, for what it's worth.

  7. #112
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    If you are going to the trunk you might want to run the hot wire on the outside. Mine is run on the outside and it is never the lowest point along the path. Most of the path is along the passenger side rail in liquid tite conduit. It provides abrasion resistance as well as eliminating a firewall penetration.

  8. #113
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    Re: pig in slop

    Yeah pics would help!

    I'm going to run the cable under the car and see how I like it. If I don't like it then I'm taking it into the interior. I could always use that spare OEM fuel supply line holster for the wires - I have all different size flex loom so will combine all the wires for a single run. It's not much cable to run, just need the signal wire from the Hobbs, and 2 main power wires for the relays. If you know of a good source to tap the ignition wire, let me know...gonna break out the FSM and start tracing and testing under the hood.

  9. #114
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    Re: pig in slop

    I'm not sure if it's switched or not, but there's a beefy red power cable that runs along the driver's side floor of car and is routed into the driver's side fuse box. If your rear seat is out, push the carpet back next to the fuse box and take a peek.

  10. #115
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    Re: pig in slop

    Here's some of the wiring:

    I chose this spot for the relays. I used 10-32 rivet nuts to secure the relays. Here I am drilling out a mount for the 1/4-20 grounds.


    All the rivet nut anchors are complete for the relay mounts and associated grounds.


    Time to grab a pile of wiring and start installing.



    The relays have been completely wired. Time to for some wire management to clean up the bird's nest of wires.






    I had to make a lot of modifications to the Racetronix hotwire kit to incorporate my own fabrication. Anyways...my beer is getting warm, enjoy!

  11. #116
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: pig in slop

    Whoa, you ran two Racetronix kits? The bulkhead connector is less capable than one Racetronix kit (10 AWG), so I'm not sure why you have two.

  12. #117
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    Re: pig in slop

    I have 2 relays for 2 fuel pumps. One will function as primary and the other is triggered via pressure switch (Hobbs switch). Since each have a different trigger, each has to have a separate relay. The main power wire run is 10 awg from the power source then coming out of the relay is 12-14 awg to the fuel pumps - power source is run in parallel.

    Seems pretty straight forward to me...

    Edit:

    Just in case I misunderstood. Here's a pic of the Racetronix kit that plugs to the OEM bulkhead connector.


    The purple wire is the level indicator. The other is a ground and trigger. I depinned anything powering the fuel pumps and ran it to the new bulkhead connector from the hotwire kit.

    One relay is a Racetronix hotwire kit, the other is one I fabbed up using a lot of their parts - they have great prices! So basically, the only thing going to the OEM bulkhead connector is level indication.

  13. #118
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    Re: pig in slop

    Based on your pictures, it looks like you have one 4-way (yellow) Racetronix bulkhead connector, and the OEM connector. If you're planning on running only the level indication through the OEM connector, the primary pump through one relay and the secondary pump through the other, how are you getting power to the second pump without having a second bulkhead connector? I haven't looked into this yet, but I did buy a second Racetronix bulkhead connector with that possibility in mind.

  14. #119
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    Re: pig in slop

    The 4-way (yellow) bulkhead connector is good for 2 pumps...4-way = 4 wires. Each pump requires 1 power and 1 ground. So you only need 1 bulkhead connector for 2 pumps.

    ***Edit***

    Here is the Racetronix electrical bulkhead (yellow) wiring connector and wires. The red and black from the harness is spliced to run the main pump - the red connects to the relay and the black goes to a common ground. The blue (positive) and purple (negative) connect similarly to the red (positive) and black (negative) to the other relay.


    Here you can see where the wires split into 3 different paths from the relays. The 1st path holds the OEM connectors for the fuel tank level and trigger for the relay. The 2nd path holds the fuel pump power and ground. The 3rd path holds the trigger for the Hobbs pressure switch (for secondary fuel pump), and both 10awg power wires that go to either the battery or alternator.


    It's a lot of custom wiring and modifications to the existing Racetronix hotwire to get the right lengths and clean install. The trigger for the Hobbs pressure switch has to be run to the intake manifold where I will be splicing into the brake booster to mount the Hobbs switch. I should be installing the pressure manifold this weekend which will give ports for boost/vacuum monitoring, Hobbs switch, and connections for wastegate and blow-off-valve.

    Hope the pics help.

  15. #120
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    Re: pig in slop

    I was strokin' that ego marveling at the job well done when I suddenly noticed that the trailing arm part of the cradle fits exactly where I ran my fuel lines. Talk about panic, disgust, instant sober after drinking like a sailor etc.

    Here is a reference pic - from Fuzzy's cradle bushing install thread.


    Here are my fuel lines.


    At 2am, I was like.....









    But then....






    I raised the cradle and it clears! - phuckin' whew!


    The pic looks like it pinches but it doesn't. There is even some wiggle room with the fuel lines but barely. There is sufficient strain relief on the lines. I'm going to wrap that area to protect chafing. The cradle doesn't move with my Delrin cradle bushings so that is a little more comfort too.

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