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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, pig in slop in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; All of this mess... Produced this today!...
  1. #61
    philistine's Avatar
    philistine is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: pig in slop

    All of this mess...


    Produced this today!

  2. #62
    FuzzyLogic is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: pig in slop

    Oooo shiny! Can you do a couple more pictures?

  3. #63
    SevillianSTS is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: pig in slop

    What is the advantage of this upgraded fuel pump assembly ?

  4. #64
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by SevillianSTS View Post
    What is the advantage of this upgraded fuel pump assembly ?
    Short answer, to feed more fuel at normal voltage (no BAP) for high horsepower and stable regulated fuel pressure.

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Oooo shiny! Can you do a couple more pictures?
    Here are some pics on the fab work. I took a ton of pics. This took me almost 8hrs to complete.

    On the left is the new fuel regulator complete with a return that will be located at the engine just after the fuel rails. On the right is the OEM fuel regulator which was attached at the return port on the bucket.


    Of course that means that you need to upgrade your your rails.


    Here are the dual DeatschWerks pumps installed after carving out A LOT in the bucket to make room.


    The filters sit in there very comfortably. The additional pump with the short filter is located right at the return and has a 45 degree slope - plenty of clearance for fuel return.

    The pumps are kept together using 0.032" lock wire.


    This is where the regulator was on the return port. I tapped it using a 1/4-18 NPT.


    Here is the new return fitting installed.


    Drilled out and installed new supply (-8AN) and return (-6AN) bulkhead fittings.


    Underside showing the bulkhead fittings. Notice the spacing to place the gasket and nut - leave enough room so they don't interfere with tightening.
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  5. #65
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    Re: pig in slop

    Here's some more pics:

    Added a worm-gear clamp for 2 reasons. 1) to better secure the bucket so that it doesn't come apart 2) to better support the pumps to keep them off the strainers.








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  6. #66
    FuzzyLogic is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: pig in slop

    Potentially dumb question--did you use the black plastic power connectors that came with the DW300 kit, or did you go with something beefier? Also, I ordered more stuff:


  7. #67
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Potentially dumb question--did you use the black plastic power connectors that came with the DW300 kit, or did you go with something beefier?
    Good question!

    I used the connectors that came with the DW300 kit. I spliced into them with the Racetronix bulkhead connector. I soldered them and wrapped with Raychem heatshrink 3:1. I was satisfied with the datasheet on the pump and wiring that came with the kit - including overvoltage and amp load. The bulkhead connector is pretty beefy and I could have depinned the DW300 connector and ran it straight down but my design is for ~14.5 volts. I didn't find it necessary to interrogate the connector at the pump - besides, those connectors are only rated so far no matter how big a wire you can shove in there.

    There are 2 things I like about the Racetronix bulkhead connector 1) It can handle a lot of amps, up to 20 amps and sustain ~14.5 amps continuously. That far exceeds the wimpy OEM connector. 2) It has a vapor seal - this thing might as well fallen from the sky because Racetronix is the only one with a decent price and applicability for fuel module modifications.

    I highly doubt there would be a connector failure using the combo. If you were to use a BAP...that changes things, use the beefiest stuff you can get.

    I want to point out...do a continuity check on your wires if/when you come to that point. Racetronix switched wire colors from what plugs into the top and bottom - Effed me up a little when I was jotting down notes e.g. gray became purple, red became black etc.

    There are a lot of little things I didn't include which were trial/error - let me know if you want those details while it's fresh in my mind, it's evaporating daily as I get closer to slapping this thing together.

    Fuzzy, I think you're the only one interested in this based on the responses

    Edit:

    Get (qty) 1 kit #11...not 2. I used the filter in that #11 kit but used the short filter in the DW300 kit for the other pump. Noway you can fit both in there.
    delete flexhose 10 - not needed
    Get (qty) 1 flexhose 14...not 2
    Definitely need (qty) 2 flexhose 8
    delete thin foam sleeve - not needed
    *personally I don't think you need the wiring connectors

    I can't comment on the rest because I didn't use that and don't know what it is.

  8. #68
    FuzzyLogic is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: pig in slop

    I think you'd be surprised how many people are watching this thread. What people may or may not know is that I tracked down and talked at length with most of the respectable 800+ RWHP CTS-V owners about their "lessons learned." None of these guys actively participate in the forums, although you'll see a burst of activity from the likes SkyDiver and S-Cam on LS1Tech once every 12-18 months or so.

    Anyway, bottom line is that fueling a supercharged, 800-1000 RWHP CTS-V cost these guys, on average, $1000-1500 for hardware alone, but the crazy part is that the expenses associated with developing that final configuration took 5-7 hardware revisions (trial and error) and blew the cost of the project up to $5-12k. Since you've been going down the right path this far, I haven't seen the need to comment on this or tell their stories (nor do I think they want them told).

    At this point, the only hurdles that we may have to face are AFR thinning out at WOT when the supercharger (assuming 18-22 psi boost) spools up, but the problem should be mitigated somewhat by increased volume in the larger diameter lines. If the problem rears it's ugly head, a good surge tank with a huge pump is the only solution. The other potential issue is tuning at low speeds with ID850 injectors (which are worth the cost because they flow more consistently, injector to injector, and they're better documented than conpeting products).

    Anyway, I'm still debating the merits of -10AN feed and return, just as a way of holding more volume in the lines, but I'll let you know how that goes.

  9. #69
    SevillianSTS is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    Fuzzy, I think you're the only one interested in this based on the responses
    I'm not ready to get into anything this deep of modding yet, but I was wondering about beefing up the fuel system after I saw how they over-power the stock fuel pump with the standard Maggie setup.
    So thanks for posting up all the info and "how-to's"

  10. #70
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Anyway, I'm still debating the merits of -10AN feed and return, just as a way of holding more volume in the lines, but I'll let you know how that goes.
    Your spraying fuel so you don't need the same diameter line - return line can be smaller. The components I chose all accepted the -8AN oring fittings with the exception of the return port on the regulator, it is -6AN oring fitting. The fuel rails even though take a -8AN oring fitting have a diameter of 0.625 so running a -10AN seems logical.

    Some math for the silent watchers: (1/16*10=0.625), multiply the AN size by 1/16 to find the inside diameter of the hose.

    The trouble you are going to run into is trying to find room on the top of the bucket for space. -10AN take up a lot of room. I'm sure it can be done. You could grind away the stock feed/return and drill it out to fit.

    I would recommend -10AN feed and -8AN return if you want larger fuel lines.

    Also regarding the injectors...ID1000s are a major improvement over the ID850s. I have a set of ID1000s and absolutely love them, idles like stock with 550rwhp on my s2k. Set the injector dead-times and tuning was super easy. Eliminated my hot stalls, reduced my idle from 1100 rpms to 850rpms perfectly stable.

    Quote Originally Posted by SevillianSTS View Post
    I'm not ready to get into anything this deep of modding yet, but I was wondering about beefing up the fuel system after I saw how they over-power the stock fuel pump with the standard Maggie setup.
    So thanks for posting up all the info and "how-to's"
    Great! I'm glad your enjoying my mod hell soup kitchen, haha. I think using a BAP on the Maggies was an economical choice. A lot use them without too many problems and the resale on them are pretty good. The part that isn't so good is that sometimes those BAP fail and you have no redundant backup system. They also reduce the life on the pump and the BAP can only go so far before it fries your connectors trying to squeeze every bit of power out of the fuel pump - it can also create too much heat.

    I've seen many fried connectors using a BAP and also using hotwire relays.

  11. #71
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    Re: pig in slop

    Many would base the size of the fuel lines on the design of their build. Here's some snapshots comparing the different sizes and snapshots of what it might look like on the bucket:

    -10AN, -8AN, -6AN


    Black -8AN. -6AN compared to the blue -10AN


    My fuel module is already crowded but this gives you a glimpse of the size of the blue -10AN - consider the space for the bulkhead nut underneath shown in a previously.




    I taped this together but you get the point, no trick photography here. These were the only spare -10 fittings I had.







    I'll never make it as a hand model.

    Flip it upside down and you can see how crowded it gets.


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  12. #72
    FuzzyLogic is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: pig in slop

    Wow. Those -10AN fittings are really beefy. It looks like a -10AN/-8AN combo *might* fit, but only just. What really concerns me is the bend radius of the lines as they go over the side of the tank. If they aren't properly supported, they might have enough leverage to crack the top of the plastic bucket. I'll order a couple of test pieces and see of I can mock up something that seems reasonable. I really appreciate the extra work you did here!

  13. #73
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    Re: pig in slop

    Here's a thought...make them both -8AN and put an adapter to open it up to -10AN. That way you can fit all the connections on the bucket top. It would act as a "minor" orifice but should keep the volume all the way to the fuel rails. With that much length to the fuel rails, pressure should stabilize and shouldn't interfere with anything.

    I suspect you are going to use SS braided line - hmm if I was in New England, my choice too.

    Fuzzy, to save you some trouble, get 5/16" barbed fittings from Home Depot/Lowes for those flex fuel lines. You won't be able to get anything in there larger than that. 1/4" fits too loose and 3/8" was far far beyond what those flex lines can stretch. If you use a heatgun...use extreme caution, that material acts more like a thermoset than a thermoplastic.




  14. #74
    silver1r is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: pig in slop

    Thanks for this thread! The fuel system always worried me about these cars. I thought about going with a fuel cell but after reading this, I'm definetly going this route!

  15. #75
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by silver1r View Post
    Thanks for this thread! The fuel system always worried me about these cars. I thought about going with a fuel cell but after reading this, I'm definetly going this route!
    Great! Glad to hear it.

    It's only fair I should show that this actually fits in the fuel tank...and HOW I INSTALLED IT

    Assemble the bucket with the black locking ring. Connect the the fuel line to the bucket from the driver's side. The component with a large red circle should look just like this in the pic, if it doesn't then reverse it - just take out the clips out from the bottom and rotate it. Disconnect the return line and tie a piece of strong string to it - it's the little red circle.


    Slide it in gently. If you force it too much you will detach the top part of the bucket from the hinges - you will have to start over.




    Fish the return line up through carefully and you can see you have enough room to tighten it.


    This may seem trivial but....I spent 2.5 hours figuring this thing out. When I first tried to shove it in there, I panicked!



    This is my favorite pic

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