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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, pig in slop in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Maiden voyage success. I can honestly say these mods were worth every bit of it. That clutch needs no feathering ...
  1. #271
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    Re: pig in slop

    Maiden voyage success. I can honestly say these mods were worth every bit of it. That clutch needs no feathering and is silky smooth. I do not recognize the car. It is so quiet and absolutely no parade clunk. The car is so much more damn responsive.

  2. #272
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    Maiden voyage success. I can honestly say these mods were worth every bit of it. That clutch needs no feathering and is silky smooth. I do not recognize the car. It is so quiet and absolutely no parade clunk. The car is so much more damn responsive.
    Congratulations! Job well done, sir. Now it's time to take back those five seconds on the track!

    Was this your first time on the KW Variant 3s? If so, how did they feel? Did you notice the slot passing frequency on the DRT rotors when you hit the brakes? Transmission tunnel sound--thoughts? How does the 8.8" feel around corners? Any difference in terms of traction with the posi?
    philistine likes this.

  3. #273
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Congratulations! Job well done, sir. Now it's time to take back those five seconds on the track!

    Was this your first time on the KW Variant 3s? If so, how did they feel? Did you notice the slot passing frequency on the DRT rotors when you hit the brakes? Transmission tunnel sound--thoughts? How does the 8.8" feel around corners? Any difference in terms of traction with the posi?
    I've had the Kdubs for awhile. I wasn't focused on the brakes - I was doing some break-in. The big change was driving it with absolutely no clunk! The clutch is very grabby and I wasn't used to it. Putting into gear was easy and no feathering was necessary - very smooth and very comfortable. The cabin is much quieter. I have the tunnel shield and sound dampening - awesome upgrade! The rear end feels completely different. For some reason the rear-end feels heavier but very much well planted. I have to do the standard "break-in". It has all the Cadillac smoothness of driving with no compromises! It truly felt like a luxury car for the first time since ownership.

    I feel that the largest contributions come from the CS 8.8 and Katech LS9 clutch. It is a new car and I absolutely love the new drivetrain mods. It is so comfortable to drive...I just love it! It is so good that I'm thinking of making it a DD.

    Fuzzy, that stock rear has to go. The feedback of others with it [CS 8.8] is absolutely true - totally bad-ass! I wish I could comment more but I'm tipsy from celebrating.

  4. #274
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    voodoochikin04 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: pig in slop

    so jealous... my car feels nothing like cadillac luxury, its loud, bangs, jerks, wobbles... good job man!!!!

  5. #275
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochikin04 View Post
    so jealous... my car feels nothing like cadillac luxury, its loud, bangs, jerks, wobbles... good job man!!!!
    Thanks! The fuel system gobbled up a chunk of my time - I didn't think I'd ever get finished! The only thing left is the ATI Superdamper but I decided to combine mods for that job - after break-in with all my goodies. So fun to drive!

    btw Fuzzy, it's a limited slip not posi.

  6. #276
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    Fuzzy, that stock rear has to go. The feedback of others with it [CS 8.8] is absolutely true - totally bad-ass! I wish I could comment more but I'm tipsy from celebrating.
    I agree, but I think you're assigning too much credit to the rear end. The Revshift subframe bushings deserve a ton of credit for the stability and "planted" feeling that you described. I'd expect quicker on-throttle response, better traction, and less clunk with a 8.8" or 9", which are huge benefits--albeit different ones.

    By the way, here's my latest AN fittings order (see image below). Per your recommendation, I also ordered the Porter-Cable PC1014 Forstner drill bit set--I'm going to have to start referring to you as the resident tool expert. I love it--having the right tool or tools make all the difference in the world. Also ordered SKF hubs. I want to get the new brakes, rotors, and hubs installed before the snow sets in.


  7. #277
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    Re: pig in slop

    I got lucky with the Delrin inserts but I see your point. I put about 30 miles on the new V and so far so good! I have vibrations due to the fresh Revshift MMs but that was to be expected. My steering linkage no longer rubs on the headers on sharp turns. I notice that I have to crank it twice to get it running. Turn the key and hear the fuel pump charging the line but it still takes 2 tries to get it turn over. I drove it with 1/4 tank of gas with no issues all the way 1/8 tank.

    Gave it a nice country ride around some good turns that I do with my s2k - ehh, have to get used to the V all over again. Feels very heavy in comparison but I've been driving that daily while the V was on ramps.

    I don't notice any improvement on stopping power with the fresh OEM pads and DRT rotors - just quiet. The clutch is quiet and smooth like butter - no hard launches for awhile though.

    Regarding your list, I notice you have a SS -12AN adapter. I just want to remind you that SS has a tendency to *gall*. Any little piece of dirt or if you tighten it too much will ruin it and what it is threaded to. I avoid them if I can help it with the exception of nylon inserts. SS nut + SS bolt = galling 95% of the time.

    ***Edit***
    That V2 brake upgrade you're doing - does that give you a 5 bolt pattern? I'm thinking dibs on the Forgestars if they come up for sale

  8. #278
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    I got lucky with the Delrin inserts but I see your point. I put about 30 miles on the new V and so far so good! I have vibrations due to the fresh Revshift MMs but that was to be expected. My steering linkage no longer rubs on the headers on sharp turns. I notice that I have to crank it twice to get it running. Turn the key and hear the fuel pump charging the line but it still takes 2 tries to get it turn over. I drove it with 1/4 tank of gas with no issues all the way 1/8 tank.

    Gave it a nice country ride around some good turns that I do with my s2k - ehh, have to get used to the V all over again. Feels very heavy in comparison but I've been driving that daily while the V was on ramps.

    I don't notice any improvement on stopping power with the fresh OEM pads and DRT rotors - just quiet. The clutch is quiet and smooth like butter - no hard launches for awhile though.

    Regarding your list, I notice you have a SS -12AN adapter. I just want to remind you that SS has a tendency to *gall*. Any little piece of dirt or if you tighten it too much will ruin it and what it is threaded to. I avoid them if I can help it with the exception of nylon inserts. SS nut + SS bolt = galling 95% of the time.
    Sorry, I forgot you have Delrin inserts. I'm surprised that those things took off like they did... seemed like a nice coat of paint on a bad apple. But I have no experience with them, so I could be totally wrong. It'd be interesting to take two nearly identical cars--one with Delrin inserts and one with Revshift bushings--for a spin. So many of the arguments that regularly occur on this forum and LS1Tech could be settled by some hands-on time.

    With respect to the "heavy" feeling, I suspect that you're feeling the higher roll center of the CTS-V and greater unsprung weight of the CTS-V wheels (versus your S2K) combined with the understeer associated with our very conservative OEM alignment. If you're still driving with the stock KW Variant 3 springs in the back, the whole body of the car is sagging to the outside rear around the twisties, removing weight from the front wheels and contributing to sloppy handling. Although my CTS-V is probably still less nimble than your S2K, I'd wager that it's significantly snappier than your CTS-V at the present time.

    For what it's worth, my stock, black powdercoated CTS-V winter wheels with 245/45-18" Continental DWS weigh as much as my rear 19x10" Forgestar F14s with 285/35/-19" Hankook Ventus V12 tires. IIRC, the DRT rotors weigh a little more (half a pound or so) than the stock rotors. By contrast, the Girodisc 355mm front rotors weigh 19 lbs (a savings of 7 lbs per corner versus 26.0 lbs stock), and the RacingBrake 355mm and 370mm front rotors weigh 21.5 and 23.0 lbs, respectively. In the rear, there are big gains to be had as well--RB 365mm rotors are 17.8 lbs, versus 22.7 lbs stock (4.8 lbs savings). If you talk to someone like Junior1 or AAIIIC about the front rotors, they'll probably tell you that turn-in effort is reduced with lighter front rotors. Personally, I'm more interested in lessening the static and rotating inertia of the wheels--it'll improve ride quality and acceleration/deceleration. If only this stuff wasn't as expensive as it is.

    I'll try to be careful with the stainless steel stuff. With the exception of my bulkhead connectors, almost every single fitting I ordered is stainless steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    That V2 brake upgrade you're doing - does that give you a 5 bolt pattern? I'm thinking dibs on the Forgestars if they come up for sale
    Nope. The caliper upgrade is totally independent of anything else. If you arrived at that impression by reading a couple of the newbies' posts on a thread from a few months ago, ignore them. The only thing you need to do to your car is buy M14 V2 caliper bolts and enlarge your existing M12 spindle bolt holes.


    Photo credit: AAIIIC.

  9. #279
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Sorry, I forgot you have Delrin inserts. I'm surprised that those things took off like they did... seemed like a nice coat of paint on a bad apple. But I have no experience with them, so I could be totally wrong. It'd be interesting to take two nearly identical cars--one with Delrin inserts and one with Revshift bushings--for a spin. So many of the arguments that regularly occur on this forum and LS1Tech could be settled by some hands-on time.
    The contact surfaces are Delrin - no rubber. I'm glad there are more choices springing up. CS just announced their cradle bushings along with an install tool - that will be a game changer. I have all the necessary equipment to install either but most don't. That install tool is gonna chew right into Revshift's margins. I don't care to get into poly "x" and what is better etc.

    With respect to the "heavy" feeling, I suspect that you're feeling the higher roll center of the CTS-V and greater unsprung weight of the CTS-V wheels (versus your S2K) combined with the understeer associated with our very conservative OEM alignment. If you're still driving with the stock KW Variant 3 springs in the back, the whole body of the car is sagging to the outside rear around the twisties, removing weight from the front wheels and contributing to sloppy handling. Although my CTS-V is probably still less nimble than your S2K, I'd wager that it's significantly snappier than your CTS-V at the present time.
    After break-in I can see installing your recommended Swift springs, just so much to get used to atm. I don't expect a cts-v to handle like a roadster. The new V is currently much more snappier than the boost lagged s2k - shamefully snappier!

    Great work with the brakes - interested in your driving impressions once you get it done.

    I was going to post how to wire a relay for the fuel pump(s) but seems that might not be a good idea. Might get some DIY'ers into trouble if not electrical savvy. The concept is the same for any relay. The push button override switch for the secondary fuel pump might be of interest and I have pics and notes how I wired it up - not hard.

  10. #280
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    The contact surfaces are Delrin - no rubber. I'm glad there are more choices springing up. CS just announced their cradle bushings along with an install tool - that will be a game changer. I have all the necessary equipment to install either but most don't. That install tool is gonna chew right into Revshift's margins. I don't care to get into poly "x" and what is better etc.
    I'm glad there are more choices too (competition = lower prices and innovation, plus it helps to prevent product lineups from getting stale), and I like the idea of the tool, but I don't think there's much of a market left. As they say, there's no new idea under the sun, but their product preview doesn't look anything like Creative Steel's normal work--it looks like something Revshift would build. Granted, I know very little about bushing design, but from a high-level perspective, you used to be able to see a significant difference in design methodology between the two product lines. Take away those plates and rings, and I'd be interested in seeing whether there was any significant difference between the Creative Steel core and the Revshift core.

    I was going to post how to wire a relay for the fuel pump(s) but seems that might not be a good idea. Might get some DIY'ers into trouble if not electrical savvy. The concept is the same for any relay. The push button override switch for the secondary fuel pump might be of interest and I have pics and notes how I wired it up - not hard.
    Personally, I don't see the harm in doing that--when/if we put together a "best of both words" design thread based on our lessons learned, it might be something to think about including.

  11. #281
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    Re: pig in slop

    Creative steel has done great work with a lot of their products. Revshift gave great competition with some of their stuff - but just in mounts. CS has given a turnkey differential upgrade and a host of other stuffs that is pretty darn good. I'm surprised they haven't ventured into the big game of FI options and turnkey kits. Could you imagine a turnkey upgrade with a Whipple SC from CS? It would be stellar!

    I have my suspicions that Revshift doesn't test their stuff on cts-v's thoroughly. You did the front control arms and are having issues with squeaking. I replaced MMs that were clearly blown (no heat shields). I'm glad they're in the market for this platform but I've become hesitant on their stuff. For example, I got shifter bushings from PISNUOFF largely due to the fact he has this platform as an owner - absolutely perfect! Max IIRC also has this platform for testing and has an incredible advantage for testing and his products are solid.

    I don't favor one vendor over the other but appreciate their efforts. I seriously wish CS would come up with a FI solution - would be killer!

    Anyways, the heart of this thread is the fuel system. I sniffed the fuel lines under the hood and it's clean - no odor. That's good because I was getting strong fuel vapors from other areas which I attribute to testing and submerging the fuel lines into a gas bucket. I finally fastened the trap door and sealed it with 'GOOP' - eh even with a gasket, vapors find their way in.

    I drove it around with the lid on the trap door and backseat out - can't hear the fuel pumps at all.

  12. #282
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    I have my suspicions that Revshift doesn't test their stuff on cts-v's thoroughly. You did the front control arms and are having issues with squeaking. I replaced MMs that were clearly blown (no heat shields). I'm glad they're in the market for this platform but I've become hesitant on their stuff. For example, I got shifter bushings from PISNUOFF largely due to the fact he has this platform as an owner - absolutely perfect! Max IIRC also has this platform for testing and has an incredible advantage for testing and his products are solid.
    Squeaking is an unfortunate, but unavoidable characteristic of polyurethane control arm bushings. There's nothing you can do, other than lubricate them well. Every platform has the same problem. I suspect the only easy fix would be to build control arm bushings out of Delrin, but who knows how expensive those would be.

  13. #283
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    Re: pig in slop

    Actually, Delrin is quite cheap, but has poor compression set. This means that when it is deformed, it does not return to its original shape and size. If you hit Delrin with a hammer it will dent. This means that if you use it for bushings it will deform with use, and end up providing you with loose bushings, making the car feel sloppy. Most types of polyurethane, used for automotive bushings, have good compression set characteristics. This means it does return to its original shape after being deformed. Hit polyurethane with a hammer, no dent! Much more ideal for repeated suspension beatings.

    There is actually one way, other than generous amounts of lube, to remove the squeaking associated with poly bushings. You can step up the hardness to 75D, which has minimal flex. This level of hardness has a low enough coefficient of friction that it does not hold onto the steel as it rotates. This prevents the skipping action of the poly on the steel, which is the cause of the squeak on the softer bushings.

    Back on topic though. That looks like a well thought out fuel system, lots of people would have just skipped right over the fuel cooling issue, and been confused when the car started stuttering in the hot weather. It should serve you well.

  14. #284
    SevillianSTS is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Sorry, I forgot you have Delrin inserts. I'm surprised that those things took off like they did... seemed like a nice coat of paint on a bad apple. But I have no experience with them, so I could be totally wrong. It'd be interesting to take two nearly identical cars--one with Delrin inserts and one with Revshift bushings--for a spin. So many of the arguments that regularly occur on this forum and LS1Tech could be settled by some hands-on time.

    With respect to the "heavy" feeling, I suspect that you're feeling the higher roll center of the CTS-V and greater unsprung weight of the CTS-V wheels (versus your S2K) combined with the understeer associated with our very conservative OEM alignment. If you're still driving with the stock KW Variant 3 springs in the back, the whole body of the car is sagging to the outside rear around the twisties, removing weight from the front wheels and contributing to sloppy handling. Although my CTS-V is probably still less nimble than your S2K, I'd wager that it's significantly snappier than your CTS-V at the present time.

    For what it's worth, my stock, black powdercoated CTS-V winter wheels with 245/45-18" Continental DWS weigh as much as my rear 19x10" Forgestar F14s with 285/35/-19" Hankook Ventus V12 tires. IIRC, the DRT rotors weigh a little more (half a pound or so) than the stock rotors. By contrast, the Girodisc 355mm front rotors weigh 19 lbs (a savings of 7 lbs per corner versus 26.0 lbs stock), and the RacingBrake 355mm and 370mm front rotors weigh 21.5 and 23.0 lbs, respectively. In the rear, there are big gains to be had as well--RB 365mm rotors are 17.8 lbs, versus 22.7 lbs stock (4.8 lbs savings). If you talk to someone like Junior1 or AAIIIC about the front rotors, they'll probably tell you that turn-in effort is reduced with lighter front rotors. Personally, I'm more interested in lessening the static and rotating inertia of the wheels--it'll improve ride quality and acceleration/deceleration. If only this stuff wasn't as expensive as it is.

    I'll try to be careful with the stainless steel stuff. With the exception of my bulkhead connectors, almost every single fitting I ordered is stainless steel.



    Nope. The caliper upgrade is totally independent of anything else. If you arrived at that impression by reading a couple of the newbies' posts on a thread from a few months ago, ignore them. The only thing you need to do to your car is buy M14 V2 caliper bolts and enlarge your existing M12 spindle bolt holes.


    Photo credit: AAIIIC.
    You're saying that you can put V2 calipers on the front and keep the stock V1 rotors, and the only modification is enlarging the 2 holes ?

  15. #285
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    Re: pig in slop

    Quote Originally Posted by SevillianSTS View Post
    You're saying that you can put V2 calipers on the front and keep the stock V1 rotors, and the only modification is enlarging the 2 holes ?
    That statement by Fuzzy also piqued my interest.

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