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SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

53K views 83 replies 16 participants last post by  kbraniff 
#1 · (Edited)
I have finally gotten to the shifter in my wife's car. 110k miles...shifts like SH!T. 1st and reverse are ridiculous, the rest are terrible and the slop is stupid. I have read many-a-thread, prior to my dissection of our shifter, and the solutions that are floating around the 'net are partial ones (add bushings here, replace bushings there) and they're also fairly expensive, IMO. Ultimately, I don't feel that any of the solutions by themselves fix all of the problems and all of them combined don't either. Plus I didn't find a thread (on this forum) that combines all the fixes in one thread.

The problem: At best; slop in the shifter, vague shift pattern and feel. At worst; inability to get the car into gear(s), as in my case.
The goal; to have the shifter feel and behave like "a brick sh!t house"...like one that mounts directly into the transmission, such as in an F-body, or an older Mustang (T-5 or T45 Transmission). Also a goal of mine is to have adjustable shift stops, as you can have in the F-body cars, which reduces the chance of breakage to the shift forks, and wear on the shift linkage.

I feel that there are two distinct and very different solutions for the problem defined above;
1. Improve the shifter assembly as much as possible to eliminate slop, add a "gate" and adjustable shift stops (last two parts are optional). This is the road that I'm going down b/c the car is my wife's car. If the car was mine (I drove it), I'd do the following...
2. Eliminate the entire shifter assy except the shift lever and base. Extend the internal shift rail out the back of the trans. Hook shifter directly to the internal rail, through a precision U-joint. This is the BEST solution by far. It connects your hand to the internal shift rail (the part that we're ultimately trying to manipulate) through two parts; the shift lever, and a U-joint. In the picture below, I'm pointing to the rear support for the internal shift rail. There is a simple steel freeze plug in the end. Look at the proximity of that rail compared to the shifter hole in the floor; it's nearly perfect for linking to the shifter!





Since I'm making the best of the stock "Rube Goldberg" shifter, I'll cover that, starting at the rear and moving forward. Use the following picture as a reference, as it shows the entire shifter assy.


Starting at the rear, is the SHIFT LEVER.
Options are aftermarket shifters which are $$$ and also shorten the throw. Many like the short throw. I used to. The problem is that they take away leverage, which makes shifting FAST hard to to. It also increases missed shifts, in a competitive situation (the drag-track, primarily). At any rate, I can not see what is fundamentally wrong with the stock shifter, other than the giant rubber "blob" that dampens the upper rod. I pulled the upper rod off,

....cut the damper portion off the rod,


....and welded the upper rod back onto the lower rod. Anyone doing this mod could at this point, make a "short shifter" by either cutting out extra rod and physically making the shift lever shorter, or by cutting and adding some length under the pivot. Either way has a similar effect and it boil down to a personal decision as to what you're looking for (physically shortened shift lever, or shorter throws). I wanted the tallest shift lever I could have, and the longest throws, so I kept it stock height/length.



Moving "forward", there are the bushings at the bottom of the shift lever. PISSNUOFF has those bushings.

Next moving forward, and just ahead of the shifter pivot are the bushings that support the shifter vertically. My solution is to eliminate them, the bracket that connects it to the shifter base (the floor pan), and fabricate a vertical support for the shifter connecting the bottom rear of trans, to the shifter base. Pics of my solution to follow. Why is this my recommendation? The transmission/engine assembly moves around in the car -as does any engine/trans in any car, due to chassis flex and mostly, rubber engine and trans mounts. Therefore, you don't "rigidly mount" anything from the engine/trans to the body. Yet that is exactly what GM did with the shifter! They mounted the two forward rods to the trans body (fine), but then the vertical height of the shifter is defined by the shifter base being bolted to the body of the car! Retarded. As the engine/trans moves around, the relationship between the trans and body changes, and that will (somewhat) change how the shifter works/feels, and even moves on it's own when in a gear. Eliminate that and don't use the bracket/bushings that bolt to the underside of the shifter "boot" assy (aka, the body of the car) at all.

Next, moving forward are the shifter bushings that affix the shifter assy to the rear of the trans. My thumb is pointing at them in the reference pic. Here the "Home Depot bushings" work fantastic. Very snug fit.

Again, moving forward are the plastic bushings where the shift rod connects with the "U-joint". Again, PISSNUOFF has a nice bronze bushing solution that is superior to the stock plastic one.

Next, is the steel pin that provides lateral movement in the "U-joint" -my pointer finger is pointing at what I'm calling the "U-joint". It is a loose fit and allows slop radially (as in side to side motion at the shifter). Cadzilla found a solution in simply welding this joint. I don't prefer this solution as there needs to be some side to side compliance here and welding forces all the side motion to be absorbed in the bending of the shift rod, and causes side loading of what I call the "upper shift rail" going into the trans. My solution was to use a 1/4" roll pin. The hole is .238" -smaller than 1/4". I cut the split/groove in the roll pin wider w/a Dremel tool (a cut-off wheel would work too), and that allowed the roll pin to compress enough to fit. it is TIGHT, there is absolutely no slop now, and the joint still has the ability to provide lateral movement. I think that it is a fair solution, that will last a long time.






All of the above will provide much sharper shifting than stock. It will eliminate the "fighting" between the shifter mounts on the trans and where it bolted to the floor pan. It is a huge improvement. All slop will be removed from the linkage...but will all slop be eliminated from the driver's perspective? Will the shifter feel like a Pro5.0 shifter in a T56 Camaro? No, it will not. It will still have some lateral movement when in a gear due to compliance (flex) in the shifter frame, rod, and tolerances inside the transmission itself. How can we mitigate this and make the shifter feel like it's a "Brick sh!t house"? This is where the shift gate is required, and the adjustable shift stops. Since our shifter is remotely mounted, there will be flex in the assy no matter what. To mitigate this, we can build a shift gate that makes it so the shifter physically can not move side to side when it's in a gear. We're doing this AT the shifter, so any flex in the linkage is taken out of the equation, from the driver's perspective -shifter doesn't move, so it "feels" stronger. Pics to follow.
 
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#2 ·
what length of roll pin did you use?
 
#5 ·
Well then, as you were, guys...but if you really think that PISSNUOFF's bushings make the CTS-V's shifter feel like a quality shifter in a F-body...you are way off the mark. Those bushings are a crucial part of the process -I'm not discounting them or PISSNOFF's contribution. I'm also not even attempting to imply that they don't make a huge improvement; I know that they will. What I'm saying is that to meet the goal that I outlined above, you need those parts.... and more. And you do. I can stop posting, if you'd like. Or I can continue to document what *I* am doing to meet the goals that I have for the shifter -the feeling and features of a Pro 5.0, in a F-body.



The one I used is 1", I believe. It is flush with the U-joint housing at both ends.
 
#3 ·
I installed PISNUOFF's short shifter years ago, along with poly bushings, and it immediately fixed my shifting problem. It also wasn't expensive at all...I don't agree with you that aftermarket short shifters like his are expensive. I track the car, and I have no problems with missing shifts or being unable to shift quickly with his shifter.
 
#6 ·
I haven't driven an F-body, but I do road test cars for a living, and I really, really like my PISNUOFF shifter for track work and street. It compares favorably to the Miata I am currently driving - not as precise, of course, because few can match Mazda's shifter feel - but it's infinitely better than stock.

I think the reason you are getting the responses that you are is because you are identifying a 'problem' that was dealt with many years ago by the V community. How many CTS-V short shifters have you personally tested out? Do you have experience with the PISNUOFF unit, or with any other brands for the CTS-V?

A lot of your problems getting the car into gear may also be clutch related, as the fluid needs to be periodically swapped out and bled to avoid not being able to get the car into gear. All problems I have successfully dealt with in my own CTS-V.
 
#8 ·
I think the reason you are getting the responses that you are is because you are identifying a 'problem' that was dealt with many years ago by the V community.
Well then, as you were, guys... I can stop posting, if you'd like. Or I can continue to document what *I* am doing
Please keep it going. The short shifter and fresh bushings in the shifter may really be all it takes (what do your shifter bottom bushings look like, btw?); but I don't see anything wrong with new users digging in. Maybe you're reinventing the wheel, but maybe you're the guy with the stroke of genius that becomes SOP in the future.

It compares favorably to the Miata I am currently driving
Glowing praise right there. I may pull my shifter out and give it the shorten/lengthen treatement based on this alone. From reading everything I can find on the shifter, I got the sense that the only fix was there was no fix, and if you drop the trans and throw everything you can at it, the best to hope for is mediocre.
 
#7 ·
I can tell you with a UUC shifter, UUC shifter bushings, The Bronze shifter cup in the transmission, PISNUOFF's bushings and home depot bushing I still have significant slop. I'm hoping the roll pin will help with this.
 
G
#16 ·
Good job tearing into the problem and dissecting it. We need more people around this community that do this. Right now there are only about 4-5 of us that are willing. Don't get discouraged, you've been a member since 2009 so you should know how we are around here. Lol. Keep up the good work.

If you haven't, read through this and maybe get some ideas that could help you.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1517800-b-m-shifter.html

Btw - I am working on developing my own shifter from the ground up that will blow away the stock piece of crap.

- Brian
 
#20 ·
Might try the roll pin then. Or, if you want to get fancy, get a precision U-joint and weld it to the trans shaft and shift rod.

On another note, now that I have the "U-joint" super tight, I have realized that there is also side-to-side play between the aluminum housing that houses the "mock shifter" and the solid steel trans shift rod where it enders the trans. I am not going to be able to remove that play, practically, so it will have to stay. How much does this affect shifting? I don't know. Will post more if I am able to quantify that better.
 
#21 ·
Hi all - under the car replacing the diff bushing, I checked the slop in the shifter - it appears to be almost entirely the bushings at the bottom of the shifter (as opposed to the "u-joint", internal cup, etc.

I've read lots of threads about these bushings, but don't recall seeing anything on the bushings at the bottom of the shifter.

What do people replace these with? Stock seems really soft, and has worn significantly on the outer diameter. They're pliable and intact, just sloppy. Halfway tempted to just wrap them in a few turns of 100mph aluminum tape...
 
#23 ·
Not sure which ones your talking about but the two that are on the arms can get changed out by some stiffer ones sold by Lindsey Cadillac. People here some of the time don't give reply to items that have been discussed more than a few times here. They or we lol say to search before asking. Either way hope i helped you out some.
 
#24 ·
Finally had a little time to move forward on this. I didn't post a pic earlier of the "Home Depot" bushings, so nothing new here, but here is a pic of mine, installed...


I basically have the shifter reinstalled in the car at this point. What I needed to do to finish that was fabricate the vertical supports for the shifter base. I simply used two pieces of 3/8" mild steel rod and made them fit around the rubber coupler, and connect the base of the shifter to the upper trans mount bolts. They aren't all that easy to see, but can see them in these pictures....




I may need to take another pic tomorrow. I'm surprised how hard it is to see the struts in these pics. :(

These vertical support struts accomplish a few things, IMO
1. Eliminate bushings -bushings that can fail, compress, and allow movement
2. Eliminate the connection of the shifter (a part that moves w/the engine/trans) and the floor pan.
3. Hopefully eliminate some NVH (not that there was much before), by not having any connection w/the floor pan
4. Massivly stiffen the shifter base, relative to the trans, which is what the shifter needs to be stiff with. The shifter assy is now 100%, part of the trans assy, as it should be.

----------

So how is it? I haven't driven the car yet, but just shifting it in the garage, the shifter feels "10 times better" than it ever did before. It feels precise, "mechanical", solid...It feels pretty damn good, and way, WAY better than it was, that is for sure. Finding reverse is like a revelation, compared to the foggy quagmire it was before; over to the right "click" and forward, "click" and you're in reverse. Nice.

There is still some lateral play when IN, any given gear. About 1/4" at the shift knob. This slop can be traced to the trans; it's inside the trans, or at least beyond the "U-joint". Also, once you reach the end of that play, if you force the lever further, there is "give" due to the flex of the metal structure that is the shifter base; the shift rod itself, the two rods that run forward to the trans...none of that is especially rigid. I expected this and the relatively small amount of play + the flex is precisely why you need to gate the actual shift lever in this car, in order to get a rock solid feel. (OR, go directly to the internal shift rail as I suggested earlier, but am not doing). That gated shifter is next on the list and of course, I will post pictures, etc.

I am happy with the improvements thus far, and am about where I expected that I would be at this point. The car would be a fantastic improvement to drive already, and more than "good enough" for most (including my wife who is the primary driver), but again, I'm going for the "brick shit house" feel that is found in a good shifter going directly into a T5 or T56 trans. Will keep updating.
 
G
#26 ·
I sell the ones in the base of the shifter that fit tighter and last longer than the stock nylon ones. UUC or Creative Steel make the polyurethane shifter bushings. They've been discussed exactly 1,739,274,322 times.
 
#29 ·
Those support struts seem like an excellent idea. From my experience with the shifter, they are exactly what it needs. Bushings and everything go a long way to shoring up the linkage, but those supports actually address an inherent flaw in the design of the shifter. Hopefully it works well. I will likely do something similar now that I've seen this.
 
#32 ·
^That is correct. Those are indeed my add-on struts. :)

Those support struts seem like an excellent idea. From my experience with the shifter, they are exactly what it needs. Bushings and everything go a long way to shoring up the linkage, but those supports actually address an inherent flaw in the design of the shifter. Hopefully it works well. I will likely do something similar now that I've seen this.
THose were my thoughts exactly, when I started tearing into the shifter! 1/2 of it is supported by the trans (like it should be) the other 1/2, byt the floor pan. THey make it work by suspending it all in Jell-o. :D
 
#34 ·
I took a few more pics. Re-takes on the struts, b'c the pics above are not very good, and then some pics of the progress...











I welded a pin to the bottom of the shift shaft. This will function as a guide pin for the shift gate. I'm not proud of the weld. :/




Here, I am beginning to build the supports for the shift gate.




And here I have added lateral rods that the piece of plate will be mounted to, with the gate/shift pattern cut into it.

 
#39 · (Edited)
What part is the "shifter plate"? If you are talking about the shifter base (where the shift elver pivots) it does move. Absolutely. Maybe you're talking about a different part?

I feel that the braces will help in three ways;
1. Noise. By not bolting the shifter base to what is basically the floor pan, and allowing the shifter to be part of the transmission (which it wholly should be), then less drivetrain noise should be transmitted into the floor/car.
2. Relative movement; if the shifter base is attached to the floor AND the trans....and the trans moves around (which it does)
3. Bushings taking a dump. What can I say? The stock bushings blow, and allow tons of movement etc. People post here that they replace 'em and claim it makes an improvement. BUT, no bushing last forever, even the aftermarket ones. So...get rid of them.

I'm not going to say that the strut rods are going to be the "end all" improvement....by themselves, I feel they will do only a little (probably about the same as the bushings that support the shifter vertically, stock), but this system won't wear out. What I do feel is important is that the struts were necessary (in conjunction with the rest of my changes) to achieve my goal; feel like a Pro 5.0 in an F-body.
 
#43 ·
What part is the "shifter plate"? If you are talking about the shifter base (where the shift elver pivots) it does move. Absolutely. Maybe you're talking about a different part?
The riveted plate where the remote linkage meets the car. Mine doesn't move relative to the transmission. At all. Can the transmission twist relative to the body of the car? I'm sure it does, slightly, since it's bolted to the motor, but it's hard to know how much without putting a GoPro in a very awkward spot.

There's more to this problem than just the linkage. Another chunk of this problem can be attributed to the stock motor mounts, and the rest to the original T56 itself. The keyway in the shift forks (which can bend) was probably one of the dumber things Tremec did with that design. A lot of people refer to the TR6060 as the stronger T56, but in reality, there was a huge focus on reducing shift effort there.
 
#40 ·
That's the point though. The plate doesn't move in relation to the tunnel, but it does move in relation to the transmission. Since the stock design attached the plate to the body and the other end of the linkage to the transmission, there had to be inherent play in the entire system so something wouldn't break later in the vehicle's lifespan from the driveline flexing under load. The supports allow the shifter to float freely relative to the body, and instead be mounted to the transmission. This is more in keeping with a traditional shifter and allows the linkage to be made much stronger and stiffer without sacrificing durability. The main change that will happen (other than better shifting) is that, from the perspective of the driver, the shifter will move more when the driveline is under load.
 
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