SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter... - Page 2
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter... in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Good job tearing into the problem and dissecting it. We need more people around this community that do this. Right ...
  1. #16
    PISNUOFF Guest

    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Good job tearing into the problem and dissecting it. We need more people around this community that do this. Right now there are only about 4-5 of us that are willing. Don't get discouraged, you've been a member since 2009 so you should know how we are around here. Lol. Keep up the good work.

    If you haven't, read through this and maybe get some ideas that could help you.

    http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-c...m-shifter.html

    Btw - I am working on developing my own shifter from the ground up that will blow away the stock piece of crap.

    - Brian
    rand49er and BigDaddy-V like this.

  2. #17
    OneFast V is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    You haven't performed the Anti-Venom mod, have you?[COLOR="Silver"]
    i have not done the anti venom mod. I have had somebody mode the shifter in the car while I wath underneath for slop and it is defiantly at the transmission side of the linkage.

  3. #18
    Tom400CFI is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Quote Originally Posted by repenttokyo View Post
    Moving to the PISNUOFF shifter was night and day for me compared to stock. It's incredible how much tighter the setup is. Like I said, it's missing the precision of a Miata...
    Bingo. You have just made the very point, that I'm trying to in my original post with the "goal".

    I never said that PISSNUOFF's parts didn't dramatically improve the shifter. In fact, what I DID say is that:
    "PISSNUOFF has a nice bronze bushing solution that is superior to the stock plastic one" and...
    "(PISSNUOFF's)bushings are a crucial part of the process -I'm not discounting them or PISSNOFF's contribution."

    I totally "get" that PISSNUOFF's contribution is incredible, and I advocate using his parts -for a huge improvement OVER STOCK. Problem with that is..."stock" ain't setting the bar very high. That is some low hanging fruit. You want the "precision of a Miata? It's available in the V...you simply have to go further, and that is what I'm attempting to do, in one aspect (what I'm doing) and another aspect; what I recommended above by completely eliminating the shift linkage altogether. THAT is the best solution.

    Anyway, as I stated above, There never really was an acceptable solution for the "U-joint" pin. Cadzilla did a great thing and "moved the rock forward", IMO, by welding it, but (again) that forces all lateral movement to be absorbed by bending the shift rod and massively side-loading the rod running into the trans. I felt that a roll-pin would be a big improvement; it still allows the joint to pivot on the horizontal axis, but being made of spring steel, it provides constant preload and doesn't allow slop in that part of the shifting linkage. So I posted about it.

    I think the reason why YOU keep giving me responses that you are, is that you spent some money, saw a major improvement, and thought that is the "end all" solution. BUT as others have posted here, some still have issues, and NONE have a shifter that feels like a "brick sh!t house". -Like the gold standard Pro 5.0 in an F-bod or Mustang. I believe that is achievable and that is what I'm going for. Read on if you're interested....if you're not, ya don't have to read this thread!

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by OneFast V View Post
    I've looked at the slop with everything apart and the plate connecting it to the car is not moving or causing slop.
    Where are you seeing your slop? Have you looked at the "U-joint" pin?

  4. #19
    OneFast V is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom400CFI View Post
    Where are you seeing your slop? Have you looked at the "U-joint" pin?
    Pretty sure this is exactly where my slop is.

  5. #20
    Tom400CFI is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Might try the roll pin then. Or, if you want to get fancy, get a precision U-joint and weld it to the trans shaft and shift rod.

    On another note, now that I have the "U-joint" super tight, I have realized that there is also side-to-side play between the aluminum housing that houses the "mock shifter" and the solid steel trans shift rod where it enders the trans. I am not going to be able to remove that play, practically, so it will have to stay. How much does this affect shifting? I don't know. Will post more if I am able to quantify that better.

  6. #21
    Tom400CFI is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Finally had a little time to move forward on this. I didn't post a pic earlier of the "Home Depot" bushings, so nothing new here, but here is a pic of mine, installed...


    I basically have the shifter reinstalled in the car at this point. What I needed to do to finish that was fabricate the vertical supports for the shifter base. I simply used two pieces of 3/8" mild steel rod and made them fit around the rubber coupler, and connect the base of the shifter to the upper trans mount bolts. They aren't all that easy to see, but can see them in these pictures....




    I may need to take another pic tomorrow. I'm surprised how hard it is to see the struts in these pics.

    These vertical support struts accomplish a few things, IMO
    1. Eliminate bushings -bushings that can fail, compress, and allow movement
    2. Eliminate the connection of the shifter (a part that moves w/the engine/trans) and the floor pan.
    3. Hopefully eliminate some NVH (not that there was much before), by not having any connection w/the floor pan
    4. Massivly stiffen the shifter base, relative to the trans, which is what the shifter needs to be stiff with. The shifter assy is now 100%, part of the trans assy, as it should be.

    ----------

    So how is it? I haven't driven the car yet, but just shifting it in the garage, the shifter feels "10 times better" than it ever did before. It feels precise, "mechanical", solid...It feels pretty damn good, and way, WAY better than it was, that is for sure. Finding reverse is like a revelation, compared to the foggy quagmire it was before; over to the right "click" and forward, "click" and you're in reverse. Nice.

    There is still some lateral play when IN, any given gear. About 1/4" at the shift knob. This slop can be traced to the trans; it's inside the trans, or at least beyond the "U-joint". Also, once you reach the end of that play, if you force the lever further, there is "give" due to the flex of the metal structure that is the shifter base; the shift rod itself, the two rods that run forward to the trans...none of that is especially rigid. I expected this and the relatively small amount of play + the flex is precisely why you need to gate the actual shift lever in this car, in order to get a rock solid feel. (OR, go directly to the internal shift rail as I suggested earlier, but am not doing). That gated shifter is next on the list and of course, I will post pictures, etc.

    I am happy with the improvements thus far, and am about where I expected that I would be at this point. The car would be a fantastic improvement to drive already, and more than "good enough" for most (including my wife who is the primary driver), but again, I'm going for the "brick shit house" feel that is found in a good shifter going directly into a T5 or T56 trans. Will keep updating.
    odla, HAMSTAR and VincentT like this.

  7. #22
    VincentT is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Those support struts seem like an excellent idea. From my experience with the shifter, they are exactly what it needs. Bushings and everything go a long way to shoring up the linkage, but those supports actually address an inherent flaw in the design of the shifter. Hopefully it works well. I will likely do something similar now that I've seen this.

  8. #23
    ctsv247 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    This makes all the sense in the world but it is hard to see the struts. More pics please......

  9. #24
    VincentT is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    photobucket-1434-1378092330340_zps938c2d1e.jpg

    I do believe these are the supports.

  10. #25
    Tom400CFI is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    ^That is correct. Those are indeed my add-on struts.

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentT View Post
    Those support struts seem like an excellent idea. From my experience with the shifter, they are exactly what it needs. Bushings and everything go a long way to shoring up the linkage, but those supports actually address an inherent flaw in the design of the shifter. Hopefully it works well. I will likely do something similar now that I've seen this.
    THose were my thoughts exactly, when I started tearing into the shifter! 1/2 of it is supported by the trans (like it should be) the other 1/2, byt the floor pan. THey make it work by suspending it all in Jell-o.

  11. #26
    ctsv247 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Where are the supports attached to the trans at the bottom and I'll assume you are abandoning the supports to the floor pan. Thanks!

  12. #27
    Tom400CFI is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    I took a few more pics. Re-takes on the struts, b'c the pics above are not very good, and then some pics of the progress...











    I welded a pin to the bottom of the shift shaft. This will function as a guide pin for the shift gate. I'm not proud of the weld. :/




    Here, I am beginning to build the supports for the shift gate.




    And here I have added lateral rods that the piece of plate will be mounted to, with the gate/shift pattern cut into it.


  13. #28
    ctsv247 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Thanks for taking more pics! Much better!

    Simple, cheap, affective! Nice work!!!

  14. #29
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    Frankly, I don't see how those struts will help at all. The shifter plate already doesn't move relative to the transmission tunnel.

  15. #30
    Tom400CFI is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...

    What part is the "shifter plate"? If you are talking about the shifter base (where the shift elver pivots) it does move. Absolutely. Maybe you're talking about a different part?

    I feel that the braces will help in three ways;
    1. Noise. By not bolting the shifter base to what is basically the floor pan, and allowing the shifter to be part of the transmission (which it wholly should be), then less drivetrain noise should be transmitted into the floor/car.
    2. Relative movement; if the shifter base is attached to the floor AND the trans....and the trans moves around (which it does)
    3. Bushings taking a dump. What can I say? The stock bushings blow, and allow tons of movement etc. People post here that they replace 'em and claim it makes an improvement. BUT, no bushing last forever, even the aftermarket ones. So...get rid of them.

    I'm not going to say that the strut rods are going to be the "end all" improvement....by themselves, I feel they will do only a little (probably about the same as the bushings that support the shifter vertically, stock), but this system won't wear out. What I do feel is important is that the struts were necessary (in conjunction with the rest of my changes) to achieve my goal; feel like a Pro 5.0 in an F-body.

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