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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; ^^^about $300 is typical for some good high quality trailing arms. I think CS priced the 8.8 kits just right ...
  1. #31
    philistine's Avatar
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    ^^^about $300 is typical for some good high quality trailing arms. I think CS priced the 8.8 kits just right - a little more for the turnkey do it in one weekend, and the partial kit to bank a few $$$.

    I'm glad you decided to give the community trailing arms, they look great! Want some money Max? Do a turnkey fuel system upgrade kit - dual pump hangar with all the lines etc.

  2. #32
    VscharesV is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Honestly I have been following this thread for about a year. From my observation, Fuzzy is a very condescending and opinionated person. He thinks he is never wrong and everything he does is the only way anything should be done. Its quite annoying. Plus hes got a huge hard on for revshift and trys to belittle their competitors any chance he gets.

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    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    Quote Originally Posted by VscharesV View Post
    Honestly I have been following this thread for about a year. From my observation, Fuzzy is a very condescending and opinionated person. He thinks he is never wrong and everything he does is the only way anything should be done. Its quite annoying. Plus hes got a huge hard on for revshift and trys to belittle their competitors any chance he gets.
    Oh? Remember how I raked them over the coals for months with questions about quality and pricing when they first produced CTS-V products? Obviously you don't. Instead of whining and complaining, Revshift proved that their products were well-engineered and worth the price. They earned the respect that they're given, but they could lose it if they made a couple of bad turns.

    My only advice is that you do your homework next time before your opinions lead you to say something else that's obviously wrong. To wit:

    I try my best to do sufficient research before I write anything up (recent examples: 1, 2, 3). The last thing that I want to do is provide inaccurate information that would result in wasted time or money. Engineering ethics. It has nothing to do with wanting to feel superior. It has everything to do with not wanting to be wrong or a burden. When I ask a question (recent examples: 1, 2), you'll note that I usually come to the table with research in hand because I hate being spoon-fed. The definition of "condescending" implies that I'm patronizing you. Do you feel patronized?

  4. #34
    VscharesV is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Well if you want to get into vocabulary lesons that's fine. At least make sure you are correct before trying to point out errors. There is more than one definition of patronize, one of them being to talk down and belittle. So to answer your question, no not me but I'm sure others would say yes.

    patronize
    verb
    1. talk down to, look down on, treat as inferior, treat like a child, be lofty with, treat condescendingly

    I said I have followed this forum for a year. How would I know what you did 3 years ago? I just gave my honest opinion of how I perceive you on this forum, I'm obviously not the only one that thinks this about you. You could be the world's nicest guy in person (though I highly doubt it) but on here you are the polar opposite.

  5. #35
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    Revshift's products first started to appear in the 12/2011-02/2012 timeframe. They were first discussed on this forum in 03/2012 in one of the big motor mount comparison threads.

  6. #36
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    If it bothers you so much, skip the banter and read the facts and information that is brought to the table. And much useful information has been brought time and again. Ive found it helpful.

  7. #37
    RyRidesMotoX is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Fuzzy can be a dick, but he is correct most of the time. Nothing wrong with that. Just don't be a little girl about it and take what he says for face value.

  8. #38
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    Wow this thread got off track... Who cares if Fuzzy is a prick... He provides good info at times... And yea these parts can be considered pricey, but if they don't break and they look sexy then it's worth it to me...

  9. #39
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    I'm surprised a poly bushing in the front mounting location would work. Poly is typically used to provide more resistance to torsion than a rubber bushing provides. In that front bushing, you want the trailing arm to pivot up and down freely, so you need the bushing to allow that, but resist forward/aft motion under braking and acceleration. A spherical bearing (or one of the spherical bushings like those offered by Ballistic Fab and others) seems like the right answer IMO.

    Can you re-load the pics? I'm getting the same error referred to previously.

    Edit: The hollow bolt at the knuckle to allow for greasing through the bolt is a good detail.
    I'm kind of leaning the same way with the front bushing. Ideally you don't want very much resistance for the up and down rotation this joint sees. You don't want it too soft either or else you'll end up with increased wheel hop and poor wheel stability. I'd be curious to see how easy it is to deflect a 70A poly bushing with the long moment arm of this trailing arm. I'm assuming it moves fine but I'm not sure how long the bushing will last from a durability perspective since poly isn't as soft and forgiving as rubber. Typically a bushing setup of this nature isn't meant to see more than 5° of side to side deflection.

    Another thing to consider when replacing a rubber bushing with a poly bushing or cross-axis ball-joint is that it will definitely transmit more road noise into the cabin. For some this is a deal breaker, for others not an issue. Anybody that has a BMR trailing arm can comment on this as it should feel the same as what Max is offering, just have less wheel clearance.

    Keeping in mind if enough of us want a cross-axis ball-joint in place of the poly bushing Max said in his original post he was willing to consider it based on interest. From a construction standpoint it shouldn't be too difficult to replace that captured bushing end on a jig with a self contained balljoint to weld on. Having a press fit balljoint insert put into the "pipe end" wouldn't be advisable due to the required material thickness needed to hold the balljoint in place. You'd want at least a 3/8" surround holding it in, preferably a cast iron link to maintain the "press fit".

    I think I'd fall into the prefer a balljoint category. I'd already be degrading ride quality with a poly front bushing over stock setup and stepping up to a cross-axis ball-joint should be very similar in noise transmission to the poly bushing. I'd take the cross-axis balljoint for durability purposes at that point, only problem being that if they don't last very long, you'd have to replace the entire arm, versus replacing a removable bushing unless they were somehow rebuildable (ballistic fab weld on balljoints are rebuildable).

    I think If Max offered this welded on to the front end
    thumbnail.jpg

    http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...nt_p_1226.html
    it would be the perfect trailing arm.

    Keep up the good work Creative Steel. We appreciate the never ending options that you are developing for this platform!
    DavidBoren likes this.

  10. #40
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    I have those Ballistic Fabrication joints on my Killernoodle trailing arms. Zero difference in noise over stock. If Creative Steel did those, it'd be a significant upgrade. Plus they're rebuildable and greasable.

  11. #41
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    FYI, most of the noise complaints from BMR installations (toe rods & trailing arms) are the result of a funky install.

    I had to use fender washers of various thickness to shim them up to where the bolts could be properly torqued without distorting the metal.

  12. #42
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    I'll order a few sets tomorrow. I think these joints are a great option but don't forget that the price to manufacture the arms just went up $74 +frt a set. Just like you guys I analyze costs. The arms I had in my car for three years worked just fine with the original set of poly bushings. I'm just sayin'...........Sounds like we will be making two models available. Choice is good.
    Our phone number is 503-316-1811 We're here M-F, 8-5 Pacific Time.
    http://www.creative-steel.com
    maxx@creative-steel.com

  13. #43
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    The old MAP trailing arms used a similar part from Rusty's Offroad. You can see them here - http://www.rustysoffroad.com/builder...-ends-inserts/. I'm too lazy to look up the Ballistic Fab pricing, but might be worth comparing. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other options out there, too.
    '05 Stealth Grey CTS-V, Hyper Silver Linea Corse Venetos w/Continental ExtremeContact DWs (summer), black Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2 wheels with 275/35-18 R-compounds (track), Hyperblack Rota Torques (winter), KW Variant3s, V2 front brakes, Hotchkis rear sway bar, EPS cam, TEA-ported 243 heads, FAST92 intake w/LS2 TB, JBA Camaro/G8 1-3/4" shorty headers w/JBA cat pipes, Corsa exhaust, UUC motor and tranny mounts, UUC shifter, MAPerformance trailing arms, Specter cradle bushings, etc...

  14. #44
    BradCTSV is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    Thanks for producing these trailing arms and I like your option for the Ballistic joint. Can you offer the arms in black powdercoat?
    I look forward to info on your toe rods....would you consider making these with spherical bushings on both ends?

  15. #45
    liqidvenom is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Creative Steel WIDE WHEEL TRAILING ARMS

    Quote Originally Posted by barrok69 View Post
    I'm kind of leaning the same way with the front bushing. Ideally you don't want very much resistance for the up and down rotation this joint sees. You don't want it too soft either or else you'll end up with increased wheel hop and poor wheel stability. I'd be curious to see how easy it is to deflect a 70A poly bushing with the long moment arm of this trailing arm. I'm assuming it moves fine but I'm not sure how long the bushing will last from a durability perspective since poly isn't as soft and forgiving as rubber. Typically a bushing setup of this nature isn't meant to see more than 5° of side to side deflection.

    Another thing to consider when replacing a rubber bushing with a poly bushing or cross-axis ball-joint is that it will definitely transmit more road noise into the cabin. For some this is a deal breaker, for others not an issue. Anybody that has a BMR trailing arm can comment on this as it should feel the same as what Max is offering, just have less wheel clearance.

    Keeping in mind if enough of us want a cross-axis ball-joint in place of the poly bushing Max said in his original post he was willing to consider it based on interest. From a construction standpoint it shouldn't be too difficult to replace that captured bushing end on a jig with a self contained balljoint to weld on. Having a press fit balljoint insert put into the "pipe end" wouldn't be advisable due to the required material thickness needed to hold the balljoint in place. You'd want at least a 3/8" surround holding it in, preferably a cast iron link to maintain the "press fit".

    I think I'd fall into the prefer a balljoint category. I'd already be degrading ride quality with a poly front bushing over stock setup and stepping up to a cross-axis ball-joint should be very similar in noise transmission to the poly bushing. I'd take the cross-axis balljoint for durability purposes at that point, only problem being that if they don't last very long, you'd have to replace the entire arm, versus replacing a removable bushing unless they were somehow rebuildable (ballistic fab weld on balljoints are rebuildable).

    I think If Max offered this welded on to the front end
    Attachment 128186

    http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...nt_p_1226.html
    it would be the perfect trailing arm.

    Keep up the good work Creative Steel. We appreciate the never ending options that you are developing for this platform!

    honestly this is good and constructive criticism.

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