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Twin turbo kit for V1

46K views 179 replies 38 participants last post by  silverozv 
#1 ·
I'm contemplating doing a twin turbo build for my 04 V and was joking around with my boss about it and he said if there was enough interest he would consider building and selling them. Right now I'm just trying to spark up interest. The guy that is willing to do it has built Supras, twin turbo Vettes and Camaros as well as Twin Turbo TBSS. He's great at what he does and is looking to mass produce something. We're located in the Garland, Plano, Sachse area in Texas. Lets get the discussion flowing! I'm open to any ideas.

Thanks a head of time guys.


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#77 ·
Yes manifolds can make power but a set of real turbo manfolds or long tubes will spool sooner make more power and at lower egts.

None of the big boys use cast manifold and there is a reason why.

I getting real sick of seeing guys just regurgitate stuff they read on tech like its the law with no 1st hand experience
 
#79 ·
You are correct, BUT, no one with a serious turbo setup is running n/a headers with turbos slapped on the ends of them either. They are running very thick tube, custom made, turbo headers...... The kooks would not last with turbos slapped on the ends, you think wrapping them makes them hold in heat and crack put some turbos on the ends....
 
#78 ·
Yeah I think the bolt-on kits would be a lot more complicated trying to use such a variety of NA headers. Either a turbo manifold with the kit or use stock makes sense - whichever gives less turbo lag and more ground clearance. I'm lowered, not slammed and my headers scrape on some speedbumps.

This may be obvious for some but the smaller turbos mentioned, GT30s - do they require an oil line? I think some models have 2 different types of bearings, journal which require lubrication and cooling and ball bearing which do not.

I think prepping the valvetrain is a good idea but would forging the bottom be a requirement? How much boost is capable of making it to the intake? There's also the question of a how boost is controlled, spring on the wastegate(s) or BCS interface? I'm somewhat familiar how the imports work, either an ECU that has that function incorporated or install Haltech, AEM, etc.
 
#82 ·
Ground clearance won't be an issue. We are not going to put our name on a product that eventually could be a hassle. We will produce a kit that will be nice and no worries with ground clearance.

The GT30 are going to be oil less due to cost efficiency. Valve train upgrades would be recommended eventually depending on the power you are looking to make the G5X1 cam is a great cam for FI. Something we might consider as a packaged deal.

Jason


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#84 ·
I think he is trying to build a kit that we can buy that want brake the bank, but I maybe wrong. A set of turbo manifolds will make the cost of the kit go up. Which is bad news for some people. IMO if I'm going to drop 8-10k on a turbo kit I will pay a shop to do a custom build. Either way no need for kooks headers. He is just trying to find out if there is a market for the kit. We don't have many companies trying to provide us with bolt on turbo kits out there.
 
#85 ·
Yeah high end ss headers is kinda subjective - it's empirical right? Seen a lot of ss headers crack on other platforms. A robust iron turbo manifold seems to last longer. Those are usually a log style quick spool in the import world - no dyno queen numbers.

A tested robust turbo manifold would be nice - something that makes a nice spool and resistant to cracks. If the stockers crack, replacement is super EZ so I like that option being that this car is super limited in the TT world.

Can you just commit to stock exhaust manifolds for the GT30 then give expanded options for the larger turbo package?
 
#91 ·
Dang, I guess I haven't kept up with this thread... 9 pages sheesh.

I want to add my .02 real quick... In a remote rear twin setup, long tubes could possibly be beneficial. But in a kit where the turbos bolt on the stock manifolds in place of the cats, cast iron manifolds are best. Most turbo applications for street use have cast iron manifolds when the turbo bolts onto the manifold. Cast manifolds are incredibly durable at least in my experience with turbo diesels and gas motors. When the turbo is remote from the engine, the heat doesn't build up as badly sure, thinner long tubes are fine. Also you have to be running an internal waste gate on these so the heat is going to go up from that (since you are sending highly pressurized highly heated air through the turbo because it has the waste gate built in). I would think you want to have oil piped right in with a pretty good oil cooler for the motor and turbo to take the extra stress there. I mean yea heat is good in a turbo but you have to control it. if you have an oiled turbo it is cooled from the oil under high load situations and helps a lot. I get you are trying to build an economic kit here. I totally support it. But if I was going to do something like this (granted I'm not) it would have to be an engine oiled turbo just for day to day reliability like my last car was. I get it if you are just going to run a 1/4 mile... No problem with turbos that have internal lubrication there. They only deal with heat for a few seconds. But let's say I want to drive from my house to Vegas with a set of twins on the V. That about 5 hours each way, up a rather large grade for several hours and knowing me, I would be in boost for the better part of 2 hours constantly going up into the mountains between LA and Vegas. I'm not saying that internally oiled turbos would not be able to take it, I'm just saying, for piece of mind, I think having oil pumped in, constantly lubricating and cooling the turbo would co a long way to increasing longevity. The internal/external oiled turbo discussion is like the camshaft lobe discussions. certain ones are hard on valve train but they sound good and make lots of power but there are threads everywhere about how they fail because people spec these gnarly drag cams for daily street use. Its the same with turbos gotta spec the right ones.
 
#93 ·
We appreciate your feedback. We're not opposed to using oil cooled turbos in fact I wouldn't mind it at all, however you come into a problem asking customers or shops to drill into there oil pan and weld a bung in to accommodate these lines. Not impossible but with the added work comes more liability. The oil less is just an easier option. When we crunch the numbers will decide which turbos we will offer

Thanks for the info

Jason


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#94 ·
If the turbos are going to be where the cats are you will probable have to pump the oil due to the turbos not being high enough to drain properly. So with that being said the oil return line could be run to the oil cap. If they wanted to go back stock they just buy a oil cap. The ones that don't mind about drilling in the oil pan or valve cover can go that route.
 
#98 ·
These are people that expressed interest so far. Thanks guys.

Philistine
Ny's Caddy
Rand49er
CTS-V_07
Onebadcaddie
Hamstar

Aftermarket headers
Manofmetal01
DMM


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Uh-h ... I'm "interested" all right, but I'm not interested in removing my maggie and installing turbos. Sorry.

I'm just an observer in this thread.
 
#100 ·
There are only two spots on the V1's where you could put a "bolt on" TT kit, they are in the factory cat location or the factory muffler location. Any other spot under the car and you will not have ground clearance, and to do anything in the engine bay would require wayy too much modification to be "bolt on".

Pretty much any of the long tube headers out there I have seen terminate too close to the floor area under the car to mount a turbo and each manufacturer would require different length piping and attachment... again, not really feasible to build a bolt-on kit for headers.

My thoughts on a bolt on turbo kit: Design the base kit around a safe power/boost level for a factory motor (~6-9 psi), and let people modify from there as they wish. Use the factory cat location with factory manifolds. Supply all hot and cold pipes (to mate to factory exhaust location), valves, cooler, oil supply/return, turbos, etc. as a "tuner" kit. Then with enough interest, also offer it as a complete kit with injectors, BAP or replacement pump and handheld tuner as a complete kit for the consumer in their garage (obviously this would require a large enough market to go this far).

Twins typically require more R&D than a supercharger setup, but also have more flexibility in terms of power, so expect it to be priced accordingly. Good luck with this, I will be watching intently.
 
#103 ·
I think this kit is a good idea and I would consider it. I also think a lot of *********** here haven't come from the ls1/ls2 gto crowd and have no idea about the aps tt kit that was made for those cars. I've seen a few if those kits and they were great. But you have to remember the clutch will need to be upgraded, the fuel pump, injectors, rear end and eventually the transmission. Then you will have a reliable 600+ rwhp with a good tune. You won't be able to slap a tt kit on and call it a day. Also why do people keep talking about LTs with a tt kit? Nobody does that unless its like a rear mount sts kit, that doesn't make sense.
 
#104 ·
When doing a TT Kit whether it be APS or our kit you're always going to have extra cost on other upgrades that's not our part. This will be a streetable TT Kit not a kit you plan on setting any records with. Our trans and clutch are fine at this level of power. Our goal is for a customer to go to their mechanic shop say LG. and say I want a TT Kit for my V1. Instead if them building a custom kit which most shops won't they buy our setup, at that time the salesman will ask about other upgrades like fuel or trans or clutch. However just like the APS kit it won't be mandatory. It's all in what the customer is wanting. Me I want a TT Kit that I can drive daily. Ill go to the track or go to events in it but its not going to be a drag car. If I was gonna do that I would put a Auto in it. A fuel upgrade will be in the works but I'm not planning in this to be a 15k dollar build.

Jason


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#105 ·
this would need to be in the 5-7k range pretty much ready to roll with upgraded pump and injectors. Everything except the tuner as everyone is going to have their own preference on that I would think. If you start getting into a bare kit that is going to cost 8-9k you may drive away the limited business you will have in the first place.
 
#107 ·
^^^yeah, I agree. My post is coming from a DIY enthusiast and mechanically inclined.

I stopped by my local speedshop and discussed this kit. I believe he made some calls to LG jr for some basic info on the kit. Anyways, with a goal of 600-650whp on a stock block was more than a little risky was the feedback. They tune 5psi on a stock LS1/LS6 block. Spit-balling hp vs boost numbers...it is roughly 24whp for every 1psi boost.


IF 5psi makes 500whp then doing the math says 9psi will bring you into the 600whp range. Based on these assumptions, the block has to be yanked and built to handle that kinda boost. The fueling is the other issue. There are tons of threads on fueling issues getting past 550whp. A return line would be needed along with larger fuel pump(s) and wiring etc.

Upgrading the fuel system is within my DIY talent but yanking the block and building it is a learning curve for me. When my speedshop was informing me of what is required to give that kind of power reliably and the basic cost they charge...I was like phuuuuuuuck thaaaaat! In order to bring the cost significantly down, I gotta keep this DIY. I'm only on day 2 of researching how to yank and build an LS6 with a Chris Werner hand book. All I can say is I got 4-5 months to figure it out and get it done myself.

I spoke with the shop tech who does most of the yanking and installing of engines etc. His advice was to go with a different block...LSX. I think his reasoning was because GM doesn't make the LS6 anymore...
 
#109 ·
I believe you are referring to SpeedSouth. Yes they called Anthony and was Informed that Louis is more than capable of producing this kit. Stock LS6 will handle the horsepower no problem. That's a shop trying to get an extra dollar out of you. I worked with SpeedSouth in fact I use to ship to them on a regular basis.

Thanks for the feedback


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#108 ·
The LS6 block will easily handle 600rwhp. There is no need for a $2000 iron block at that level.

Return style fuel system isn't required either. My STS-V had no trouble at 575rwhp with the same fuel system as in the CTS-V1. I'm not sure if the pump is the same though. I was using the stock pump with a BAP on it.

Don't over-think this. If any stock part is not up to the task you can turn the boost down till you get time and funds to upgrade it.
 
#112 ·
While you guys are great at fab work...I would love to see a fuel kit as an add-on. On my little s2k, I used a Fullblown 340lph (super quiet) fuel pump with ID1000cc injectors and my injector duty was 66% WOT with a FPR set at 50psi connected to a vacuum line. No boost spark or BAP crap.

I don't mind rewiring and running new lines. A dual pump hangar, drop in tank kit would be really nice. Just a FYI... I ran out of fuel using a 255 Walbro and RC750cc on the 4-banger at 25psi boost making a tad over 500whp.

I don't expect the TT kit to include such an elaborate fuel system but possibly consider it as an add-on.
 
#113 ·
I agree BAP is just a band aid. A good kit should call out using larger injectors and fuel pump, or you should expect to do those things with the install. Also I've seen tt ls2 gtos make we'll over 12 psi on a stock motor when the fuel and tune are done right. These motors can take the boost.... The rest of the drive train might not like it so much :)
 
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