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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Twin Turbo Kit for V1 in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Dang, I guess I haven't kept up with this thread... 9 pages sheesh. I want to add my .02 real ...
  1. #91
    RyRidesMotoX is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Dang, I guess I haven't kept up with this thread... 9 pages sheesh.

    I want to add my .02 real quick... In a remote rear twin setup, long tubes could possibly be beneficial. But in a kit where the turbos bolt on the stock manifolds in place of the cats, cast iron manifolds are best. Most turbo applications for street use have cast iron manifolds when the turbo bolts onto the manifold. Cast manifolds are incredibly durable at least in my experience with turbo diesels and gas motors. When the turbo is remote from the engine, the heat doesn't build up as badly sure, thinner long tubes are fine. Also you have to be running an internal waste gate on these so the heat is going to go up from that (since you are sending highly pressurized highly heated air through the turbo because it has the waste gate built in). I would think you want to have oil piped right in with a pretty good oil cooler for the motor and turbo to take the extra stress there. I mean yea heat is good in a turbo but you have to control it. if you have an oiled turbo it is cooled from the oil under high load situations and helps a lot. I get you are trying to build an economic kit here. I totally support it. But if I was going to do something like this (granted I'm not) it would have to be an engine oiled turbo just for day to day reliability like my last car was. I get it if you are just going to run a 1/4 mile... No problem with turbos that have internal lubrication there. They only deal with heat for a few seconds. But let's say I want to drive from my house to Vegas with a set of twins on the V. That about 5 hours each way, up a rather large grade for several hours and knowing me, I would be in boost for the better part of 2 hours constantly going up into the mountains between LA and Vegas. I'm not saying that internally oiled turbos would not be able to take it, I'm just saying, for piece of mind, I think having oil pumped in, constantly lubricating and cooling the turbo would co a long way to increasing longevity. The internal/external oiled turbo discussion is like the camshaft lobe discussions. certain ones are hard on valve train but they sound good and make lots of power but there are threads everywhere about how they fail because people spec these gnarly drag cams for daily street use. Its the same with turbos gotta spec the right ones.

  2. #92
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    I'm interested! This will be offered as a kit from LG Motorsports? Also, you might want to scroll back through and find other names that expressed interest as well.
    No this is not through LG Mororsports.

    Jason


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  3. #93
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyRidesMotoX View Post
    Dang, I guess I haven't kept up with this thread... 9 pages sheesh.

    I want to add my .02 real quick... In a remote rear twin setup, long tubes could possibly be beneficial. But in a kit where the turbos bolt on the stock manifolds in place of the cats, cast iron manifolds are best. Most turbo applications for street use have cast iron manifolds when the turbo bolts onto the manifold. Cast manifolds are incredibly durable at least in my experience with turbo diesels and gas motors. When the turbo is remote from the engine, the heat doesn't build up as badly sure, thinner long tubes are fine. Also you have to be running an internal waste gate on these so the heat is going to go up from that (since you are sending highly pressurized highly heated air through the turbo because it has the waste gate built in). I would think you want to have oil piped right in with a pretty good oil cooler for the motor and turbo to take the extra stress there. I mean yea heat is good in a turbo but you have to control it. if you have an oiled turbo it is cooled from the oil under high load situations and helps a lot. I get you are trying to build an economic kit here. I totally support it. But if I was going to do something like this (granted I'm not) it would have to be an engine oiled turbo just for day to day reliability like my last car was. I get it if you are just going to run a 1/4 mile... No problem with turbos that have internal lubrication there. They only deal with heat for a few seconds. But let's say I want to drive from my house to Vegas with a set of twins on the V. That about 5 hours each way, up a rather large grade for several hours and knowing me, I would be in boost for the better part of 2 hours constantly going up into the mountains between LA and Vegas. I'm not saying that internally oiled turbos would not be able to take it, I'm just saying, for piece of mind, I think having oil pumped in, constantly lubricating and cooling the turbo would co a long way to increasing longevity. The internal/external oiled turbo discussion is like the camshaft lobe discussions. certain ones are hard on valve train but they sound good and make lots of power but there are threads everywhere about how they fail because people spec these gnarly drag cams for daily street use. Its the same with turbos gotta spec the right ones.
    We appreciate your feedback. We're not opposed to using oil cooled turbos in fact I wouldn't mind it at all, however you come into a problem asking customers or shops to drill into there oil pan and weld a bung in to accommodate these lines. Not impossible but with the added work comes more liability. The oil less is just an easier option. When we crunch the numbers will decide which turbos we will offer

    Thanks for the info

    Jason


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  4. #94
    CTS-V_07 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    If the turbos are going to be where the cats are you will probable have to pump the oil due to the turbos not being high enough to drain properly. So with that being said the oil return line could be run to the oil cap. If they wanted to go back stock they just buy a oil cap. The ones that don't mind about drilling in the oil pan or valve cover can go that route.

  5. #95
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    These are people that expressed interest so far. Thanks guys.

    Philistine
    Ny's Caddy
    Rand49er
    CTS-V_07
    Onebadcaddie
    Hamstar

    Aftermarket headers
    Manofmetal01
    DMM


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  6. #96
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    philistine is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Twin Turbo Kit for V1

    Regarding the oil cooled turbos...possibly consider a dry sump system to cool the turbos and incorporate an oil cooler. I believe the Exa-pump is pretty reliable. I know this drives up the cost but just something to consider.

    http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/.../Exa-Pump.html

  7. #97
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    We've put dry sumps on alot of cars. It is an option just a little more costly.

    Thanks, hason


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  8. #98
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    Re: Twin Turbo Kit for V1

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmitty02z28 View Post
    These are people that expressed interest so far. Thanks guys.

    Philistine
    Ny's Caddy
    Rand49er
    CTS-V_07
    Onebadcaddie
    Hamstar

    Aftermarket headers
    Manofmetal01
    DMM


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    Uh-h ... I'm "interested" all right, but I'm not interested in removing my maggie and installing turbos. Sorry.

    I'm just an observer in this thread.
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

  9. #99
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Philistine
    Ny's Caddy
    CTS-V_07
    Onebadcaddie
    Hamstar

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    Manofmetal01
    DMM


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  10. #100
    NC-V is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Twin Turbo Kit for V1

    There are only two spots on the V1's where you could put a "bolt on" TT kit, they are in the factory cat location or the factory muffler location. Any other spot under the car and you will not have ground clearance, and to do anything in the engine bay would require wayy too much modification to be "bolt on".

    Pretty much any of the long tube headers out there I have seen terminate too close to the floor area under the car to mount a turbo and each manufacturer would require different length piping and attachment... again, not really feasible to build a bolt-on kit for headers.

    My thoughts on a bolt on turbo kit: Design the base kit around a safe power/boost level for a factory motor (~6-9 psi), and let people modify from there as they wish. Use the factory cat location with factory manifolds. Supply all hot and cold pipes (to mate to factory exhaust location), valves, cooler, oil supply/return, turbos, etc. as a "tuner" kit. Then with enough interest, also offer it as a complete kit with injectors, BAP or replacement pump and handheld tuner as a complete kit for the consumer in their garage (obviously this would require a large enough market to go this far).

    Twins typically require more R&D than a supercharger setup, but also have more flexibility in terms of power, so expect it to be priced accordingly. Good luck with this, I will be watching intently.

  11. #101
    CTS-V_07 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    ^ I agree....
    I am interested in the kit, but I want be in a position to buy until next year. I'm just throwing that out there.

  12. #102
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-V View Post
    There are only two spots on the V1's where you could put a "bolt on" TT kit, they are in the factory cat location or the factory muffler location. Any other spot under the car and you will not have ground clearance, and to do anything in the engine bay would require wayy too much modification to be "bolt on".

    Pretty much any of the long tube headers out there I have seen terminate too close to the floor area under the car to mount a turbo and each manufacturer would require different length piping and attachment... again, not really feasible to build a bolt-on kit for headers.

    My thoughts on a bolt on turbo kit: Design the base kit around a safe power/boost level for a factory motor (~6-9 psi), and let people modify from there as they wish. Use the factory cat location with factory manifolds. Supply all hot and cold pipes (to mate to factory exhaust location), valves, cooler, oil supply/return, turbos, etc. as a "tuner" kit. Then with enough interest, also offer it as a complete kit with injectors, BAP or replacement pump and handheld tuner as a complete kit for the consumer in their garage (obviously this would require a large enough market to go this far).

    Twins typically require more R&D than a supercharger setup, but also have more flexibility in terms of power, so expect it to be priced accordingly. Good luck with this, I will be watching intently.
    Thanks for the feedback! We will keep this in my mind when planning for this. A couple different levels of kits would be ideal as long as the customers are there . Thanks again

    Jason


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  13. #103
    Blown_Red_97z is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    I think this kit is a good idea and I would consider it. I also think a lot of cts-v owners here haven't come from the ls1/ls2 gto crowd and have no idea about the aps tt kit that was made for those cars. I've seen a few if those kits and they were great. But you have to remember the clutch will need to be upgraded, the fuel pump, injectors, rear end and eventually the transmission. Then you will have a reliable 600+ rwhp with a good tune. You won't be able to slap a tt kit on and call it a day. Also why do people keep talking about LTs with a tt kit? Nobody does that unless its like a rear mount sts kit, that doesn't make sense.

  14. #104
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown_Red_97z View Post
    I think this kit is a good idea and I would consider it. I also think a lot of cts-v owners here haven't come from the ls1/ls2 gto crowd and have no idea about the aps tt kit that was made for those cars. I've seen a few if those kits and they were great. But you have to remember the clutch will need to be upgraded, the fuel pump, injectors, rear end and eventually the transmission. Then you will have a reliable 600+ rwhp with a good tune. You won't be able to slap a tt kit on and call it a day. Also why do people keep talking about LTs with a tt kit? Nobody does that unless its like a rear mount sts kit, that doesn't make sense.
    When doing a TT Kit whether it be APS or our kit you're always going to have extra cost on other upgrades that's not our part. This will be a streetable TT Kit not a kit you plan on setting any records with. Our trans and clutch are fine at this level of power. Our goal is for a customer to go to their mechanic shop say LG. and say I want a TT Kit for my V1. Instead if them building a custom kit which most shops won't they buy our setup, at that time the salesman will ask about other upgrades like fuel or trans or clutch. However just like the APS kit it won't be mandatory. It's all in what the customer is wanting. Me I want a TT Kit that I can drive daily. Ill go to the track or go to events in it but its not going to be a drag car. If I was gonna do that I would put a Auto in it. A fuel upgrade will be in the works but I'm not planning in this to be a 15k dollar build.

    Jason


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  15. #105
    xbladr is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Twin Turbo Kit for V1

    this would need to be in the 5-7k range pretty much ready to roll with upgraded pump and injectors. Everything except the tuner as everyone is going to have their own preference on that I would think. If you start getting into a bare kit that is going to cost 8-9k you may drive away the limited business you will have in the first place.

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