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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Twin Turbo Kit for V1 in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; I think I'm out. Thanks n good luck guys...
  1. #76
    253ctsv is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    I think I'm out. Thanks n good luck guys

  2. #77
    runsfromdacops is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Yes manifolds can make power but a set of real turbo manfolds or long tubes will spool sooner make more power and at lower egts.

    None of the big boys use cast manifold and there is a reason why.

    I getting real sick of seeing guys just regurgitate stuff they read on tech like its the law with no 1st hand experience

  3. #78
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    philistine is online now Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Twin Turbo Kit for V1

    Yeah I think the bolt-on kits would be a lot more complicated trying to use such a variety of NA headers. Either a turbo manifold with the kit or use stock makes sense - whichever gives less turbo lag and more ground clearance. I'm lowered, not slammed and my headers scrape on some speedbumps.

    This may be obvious for some but the smaller turbos mentioned, GT30s - do they require an oil line? I think some models have 2 different types of bearings, journal which require lubrication and cooling and ball bearing which do not.

    I think prepping the valvetrain is a good idea but would forging the bottom be a requirement? How much boost is capable of making it to the intake? There's also the question of a how boost is controlled, spring on the wastegate(s) or BCS interface? I'm somewhat familiar how the imports work, either an ECU that has that function incorporated or install Haltech, AEM, etc.

  4. #79
    brngrhd is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Twin Turbo Kit for V1

    Quote Originally Posted by runsfromdacops View Post
    Yes manifolds can make power but a set of real turbo manfolds or long tubes will spool sooner make more power and at lower egts.

    None of the big boys use cast manifold and there is a reason why.

    I getting real sick of seeing guys just regurgitate stuff they read on tech like its the law with no 1st hand experience
    You are correct, BUT, no one with a serious turbo setup is running n/a headers with turbos slapped on the ends of them either. They are running very thick tube, custom made, turbo headers...... The kooks would not last with turbos slapped on the ends, you think wrapping them makes them hold in heat and crack put some turbos on the ends....

  5. #80
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by runsfromdacops View Post
    Yes manifolds can make power but a set of real turbo manfolds or long tubes will spool sooner make more power and at lower egts.

    None of the big boys use cast manifold and there is a reason why.

    I getting real sick of seeing guys just regurgitate stuff they read on tech like its the law with no 1st hand experience
    Daniel Raff ERL built 5.3L sleeved 427 made 1260rwhp at 29lbs of boost on stock manifolds. He runs sub 5 second 1/8th miles. That's 1st hand experience seeing that I watched him build his whole car.

    Jason


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  6. #81
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 253ctsv View Post
    I think I'm out. Thanks n good luck guys
    Thanks you too on your future builds

    Jason


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  7. #82
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    Yeah I think the bolt-on kits would be a lot more complicated trying to use such a variety of NA headers. Either a turbo manifold with the kit or use stock makes sense - whichever gives less turbo lag and more ground clearance. I'm lowered, not slammed and my headers scrape on some speedbumps.

    This may be obvious for some but the smaller turbos mentioned, GT30s - do they require an oil line? I think some models have 2 different types of bearings, journal which require lubrication and cooling and ball bearing which do not.

    I think prepping the valvetrain is a good idea but would forging the bottom be a requirement? How much boost is capable of making it to the intake? There's also the question of a how boost is controlled, spring on the wastegate(s) or BCS interface? I'm somewhat familiar how the imports work, either an ECU that has that function incorporated or install Haltech, AEM, etc.
    Ground clearance won't be an issue. We are not going to put our name on a product that eventually could be a hassle. We will produce a kit that will be nice and no worries with ground clearance.

    The GT30 are going to be oil less due to cost efficiency. Valve train upgrades would be recommended eventually depending on the power you are looking to make the G5X1 cam is a great cam for FI. Something we might consider as a packaged deal.

    Jason


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  8. #83
    runsfromdacops is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmitty02z28 View Post

    Daniel Raff ERL built 5.3L sleeved 427 made 1260rwhp at 29lbs of boost on stock manifolds. He runs sub 5 second 1/8th miles. That's 1st hand experience seeing that I watched him build his whole car.

    Jason

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    Like I said. It can be done and has but real turbo mamanifolds with make more power with a broader power band and lower egt.

    Flow is far more important then heat.

    I think then some nice highend ss headers would survive just fine with a turbo on the end.
    But thats not really what im advocating here. Just that real turbo manifolds wither it be 16 gauge or sch 40 pipe will have major gains over stock manifolds. Plus u get to pick the best turbo placement and ground clearance

  9. #84
    CTS-V_07 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    I think he is trying to build a kit that we can buy that want brake the bank, but I maybe wrong. A set of turbo manifolds will make the cost of the kit go up. Which is bad news for some people. IMO if I'm going to drop 8-10k on a turbo kit I will pay a shop to do a custom build. Either way no need for kooks headers. He is just trying to find out if there is a market for the kit. We don't have many companies trying to provide us with bolt on turbo kits out there.

  10. #85
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    Re: Twin Turbo Kit for V1

    Yeah high end ss headers is kinda subjective - it's empirical right? Seen a lot of ss headers crack on other platforms. A robust iron turbo manifold seems to last longer. Those are usually a log style quick spool in the import world - no dyno queen numbers.

    A tested robust turbo manifold would be nice - something that makes a nice spool and resistant to cracks. If the stockers crack, replacement is super EZ so I like that option being that this car is super limited in the TT world.

    Can you just commit to stock exhaust manifolds for the GT30 then give expanded options for the larger turbo package?

  11. #86
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTS-V_07 View Post
    I think he is trying to build a kit that we can buy that want brake the bank, but I maybe wrong. A set of turbo manifolds will make the cost of the kit go up. Which is bad news for some people. IMO if I'm going to drop 8-10k on a turbo kit I will pay a shop to do a custom build. Either way no need for kooks headers. He is just trying to find out if there is a market for the kit. We don't have many companies trying to provide us with bolt on turbo kits out there.
    Well said

    Jason


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  12. #87
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    Yeah high end ss headers is kinda subjective - it's empirical right? Seen a lot of ss headers crack on other platforms. A robust iron turbo manifold seems to last longer. Those are usually a log style quick spool in the import world - no dyno queen numbers.

    A tested robust turbo manifold would be nice - something that makes a nice spool and resistant to cracks. If the stockers crack, replacement is super EZ so I like that option being that this car is super limited in the TT world.

    Can you just commit to stock exhaust manifolds for the GT30 then give expanded options for the larger turbo package?
    We will build anything for the customer so yes if the customer wants a larger turbo build we will have options for them as well. But the GT30 kit will bolt up to stock manifolds.

    Jason


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  13. #88
    Jsmitty02z28 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    I'm gonna bring numbers to Louis on Wednesday so if you're really interested lets get a list going. Either PM me or write on here.

    Thanks guys
    Jason


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  14. #89
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    DMM
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    Re: Twin Turbo Kit for V1

    Quote Originally Posted by runsfromdacops View Post
    Yes manifolds can make power but a set of real turbo manfolds or long tubes will spool sooner make more power and at lower egts.

    None of the big boys use cast manifold and there is a reason why.

    I getting real sick of seeing guys just regurgitate stuff they read on tech like its the law with no 1st hand experience
    Not simply regurgitating useless info from a tech board posting, rather stating facts reinforced by thermodynamic principles. You're right, there is a reason that tube headers are used just as there is a reason they are always wrapped when used with a turbo, and it's not simply to keep everything under the hood cool. Tube headers are hands down easier to fab and less expensive than casting manifolds, yet the trade off is that they more readily succumb to the effects of latent heat, most often in the form of cracks in the tubing itself.

    Regarding flow...what difference does it make how well a fixed orifice flows when you intentionally place a restriction in the system? Total flow of any given system is limited to that of its restriction. In our particular case, 1 7/8" headers are usually good for about 10 whp on a N/A CTS-V compared to OE iron manifolds (without cats).

    I understand what you're saying, and there is a difference between what works and what's ideal. I am in no way meaning to impugn your work as you have proven yourself a very capable fabricator. If you choose to delve into the theory a little deeper you'll understand my perspective a little better.

  15. #90
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    Re: Twin Turbo Kit for V1

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmitty02z28 View Post
    I'm gonna bring numbers to Louis on Wednesday so if you're really interested lets get a list going. Either PM me or write on here.

    Thanks guys
    Jason
    I'm interested! This will be offered as a kit from LG Motorsports? Also, you might want to scroll back through and find other names that expressed interest as well.

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