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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; K, now I'm really confused. Just got done pulling one side apart. LMK what if you guys see anything out ...
  1. #16
    Chirpin4th is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    K, now I'm really confused. Just got done pulling one side apart. LMK what if you guys see anything out of place. I'm not missing the upper perch, but maybe missing something else.

    Thanks for looking

    From left to right

    top, bottom, top, spring/upper perch.

    This is everything that was there.
    Attached Images

  2. #17
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    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    I wish I was in front of my laptop instead of on mobile. But, if everything is there, the only explanation is that your threaded perch is too low. If someone mods their shock, the snap ring can be set lower.

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    Chirpin4th is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    I had thought about that big Jim. I'm also on my mobile, but in one of my first pics I have a measurement from center of the bottom mounting to the bottom of the threaded collar. Maybe someone can verify that number? I'm not sure how accurate decal placement is... But it looks very similar to the FAQ?

    Thanks!

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    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    I don't know why that piece is yellow, but that's the spring perch.

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    Chirpin4th is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    Unless these collars are just short? But I doubt that, because where they sit there is already good tension on the spring. This is very confusing.

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    Chirpin4th is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    Any1 have a measurement from the center of the bottom strut mount, to the bottom of the threaded collar?

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    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by Chirpin4th View Post
    Unless these collars are just short? But I doubt that, because where they sit there is already good tension on the spring. This is very confusing.
    A properly installed Ground Control kit with 10", 550-650 in-lb springs results in a collar position roughly 60% of the way down from the top.

  8. #23
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    But you have weight off the wheels in that picture, meaning that it's still under 400-600 lbs of preload there.
    Not that it really matters, but if it's a 10" 500# spring, it's got about 250# of preload on it (since it looks like he measured 9.5"). I've never measured any of my cars to see how much preload there actually is on the springs even when the suspension is unloaded.

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Personally, I'd recommend replacing it with a Eibach 1000.250.0600 (10", 2.50" inner diameter, 600 in-lbs rate).
    All else being equal, that will only gain him about 0.35", which I don't think would be enough. Not to mention he may not want a higher spring rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Keep in mind that whatever you do, your rear springs will need to be at least 50 in-lbs higher than your front springs to match.
    Depending, of course, on what he wants the handling balance to be. The factory thought front and rear spring rates being the same was OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chirpin4th View Post
    But at the same time, I'm having a hard time believing that little piece of aluminum is allowing my front end to have over a 4" drop just by being removed.
    I'm not sure if you're just exaggerating for effect, but you're nowhere near a 4" drop. I'm at about 26-3/4" from ground to fender lip (14" front center of wheel to fender lip, which is a more reliable measurement to use), and I'm only sitting about an inch lower than stock.

    I can't really explain why your car is sitting so low. I do think it's weird, though, that the GC setup appears to put the spring load into the rubber bushing in the center of the front top mount. The stock springs use a bigass rubber perch (2nd from the left in this pic of my disassembled top mount) so that the spring rides on the big aluminum piece, not on the rubber center bushing. I don't have a pic of the stock setup assembled, but if you go to this Ebay listing you can see what I mean. The KW V3 coilovers have an upper spring perch that puts the spring load on that big aluminum piece, as you can see in this pic.

    I think your quickest/cheapest fix would be to order a pair of these. Those would go between the lower spring perch and the spring, so your 10" spring would effectively become an 11" spring. That would gain you 1" of threads on the collar, so you could raise the front end by an inch. If you wanted more than 1", they make taller spacers.
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  9. #24
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    Barring some kind of installation error (which it seems like this is), the only other possibility is that the springs have skewed massively away from their intended rate. That would be covered by Eibach's warranty, but I'm not sure how to go about proving it.

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    Chirpin4th is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    Yeah, I believe there is something wrong. I would really like to figure that out first. I'm just not sure what it is? I don't really think there is anything wrong with both front springs. Although that spacer would definitely help me out.

    I did not measure the overall length, so I don't know if I'm at 60% or not. I've been working on the right side, maybe if I dismantle the left I'll see it from a different perspective? lol

    Not really sure what to do next, other than call ground control on Tuesday. I have never contacted them before, so I'm not sure what kind of customer service they have when it comes to this sort of thing.

    I'll search the net tonite, and see if I can find anything that might give me what I need.

    I'm with fuzzy tho... I do believe something is missing, or installed wrong. I doesn't look like anything is broken. All the joints, and bushings look pretty good.

    Again, thanks for everyone's input!

    ----------

    My goal is to have the front fender about an 1" higher. I believe it will level out the car, and I'll have a better chance staying off the bump stops. And improve the wear on my struts and tires

  11. #26
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by AAIIIC View Post
    Not that it really matters, but if it's a 10" 500# spring, it's got about 250# of preload on it (since it looks like he measured 9.5"). I've never measured any of my cars to see how much preload there actually is on the springs even when the suspension is unloaded.


    All else being equal, that will only gain him about 0.35", which I don't think would be enough. Not to mention he may not want a higher spring rate.


    Depending, of course, on what he wants the handling balance to be. The factory thought front and rear spring rates being the same was OK.


    I'm not sure if you're just exaggerating for effect, but you're nowhere near a 4" drop. I'm at about 26-3/4" from ground to fender lip (14" front center of wheel to fender lip, which is a more reliable measurement to use), and I'm only sitting about an inch lower than stock.

    I can't really explain why your car is sitting so low. I do think it's weird, though, that the GC setup appears to put the spring load into the rubber bushing in the center of the front top mount. The stock springs use a bigass rubber perch (2nd from the left in this pic of my disassembled top mount) so that the spring rides on the big aluminum piece, not on the rubber center bushing. I don't have a pic of the stock setup assembled, but if you go to this Ebay listing you can see what I mean. The KW V3 coilovers have an upper spring perch that puts the spring load on that big aluminum piece, as you can see in this pic.

    I think your quickest/cheapest fix would be to order a pair of these. Those would go between the lower spring perch and the spring, so your 10" spring would effectively become an 11" spring. That would gain you 1" of threads on the collar, so you could raise the front end by an inch. If you wanted more than 1", they make taller spacers.



    Well, I still can't find any helpful information. I agree about the quickest/cheapest fix would be these. I'll be ordering a pair, to make due until I can find out what is going on. Thanks for the suggestion!

    Again if I ever figure out what was wrong I will update this post!

    As for the 4" drop. I just meant If I were to adjust it all the way down, I would have over a 4" drop. I do feel that I'm missing at least an 1", if not more.
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    Chirpin4th is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    double post

  13. #28
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    A properly installed Ground Control kit with 10", 550-650 in-lb springs results in a collar position roughly 60% of the way down from the top.
    I wonder if GC began using longer sleeves at some point? I went and looked at the FAQ install article and the author's spring perches were up towards the top of the sleeve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chirpin4th View Post
    As for the 4" drop. I just meant If I were to adjust it all the way down, I would have over a 4" drop. I do feel that I'm missing at least an 1", if not more.
    Ah, got it.

  14. #29
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    U measured again after my springs settled. I'm at 25 1/2" to the fender. I think I'm going to order the 2" spacer.

  15. #30
    Chirpin4th is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: front end too low with Ground Control, need opinions please

    I'm starting to second guess myself that that spacers will raise my front based on the preload I already have on the front springs. I have a feeling that I will just be compressing the springs another 2" but not raising the car. Am I over thinking this? Or could the overall length of the strut be off?

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