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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, V1 E-Force Thread in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Originally Posted by ranger2525 Should I work the ls6 heads or go with another set of heads? Also plan on ...
  1. #46
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger2525 View Post
    Should I work the ls6 heads or go with another set of heads?
    Also plan on using whatever cam tick racing recommends unless you guys know a better option.
    If you plan on more than 5-7 lbs of boost, you're going to have to reduce your static compression ratio (SCR). I do not care what anyone tells you. If you cannot do this through piston reliefs you will have to step up to a cylinder head with a larger combustion chamber. I chose the latter and went with LQ4/9 "317" heads as they have the exact same ports, valves, etc only with a larger 72cc chamber.

    Martin Smallwood knows his stuff and you'll be in good hands. I used a Brian Tooley Stage 1 blower cam, and it works great. I suspect Martin would spec something in the same neighborhood.

  2. #47
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DMM View Post
    Right - Tommy is negotiating with a vendor right now that has already given us a substantial discount on a group buy in the past, so it may be worth it to keep an eye over on the LS1Tech CTS-V forum for when something comes up. I am trying to document all of the parts that I used during my build (the final version) as the vendor may be able to provide these as well.

    The thing to keep in mind here is the LS2 is much less involved and less expensive. You can also opt to use LS3/L92/LSA heads on an LS2 and use the square port version (I believe the Camaro/G8 Box 1).

    For the LS6, you'll have to supply these additional parts over and above the LS2 '06 - '07 CTS-V's:
    - Standard LS1/LQ4-9/L33 valley cover. You will have to drill the bolt holes so the counter sunk bolts can be installed.
    - Must upgrade to the LS2 Throttle body/harness
    - Must upgrade to the '06 - '07 strut tower brace. Have no idea if the '09+ will fit our application.
    - Use a brass 3/8" NPT street 90* (re-threaded to fit the block) for the oil pressure sensor.

    After Tommy gets a final deal on everything I'm sure he'll start a separate thread, which will likely be linked here.
    Well I have the Mamo AFR 215 heads but Tony said I'm around 11:1. I could sell the heads/cam/102 intake/TB/ <- since I'm guessing that won't fit on the S/C opening. Maybe I'd be better going with LS2 heads P&P'd? Maybe get a better blower cam?

    LS6 here. And I want this "kit".

    Badly.

  3. #48
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Who am I kidding? LOL I am going to do the E-force. So I will call Martin and see what he suggests on the heads and cam. Is Tommy Compton working on this? And I don't see anything recent on another forum. I am going to have some dead presidents burning a hole in my pocket next week and don't want to spend them on a hooker. So let's hurry this along shall we?

  4. #49
    253ctsv is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranger2525 View Post
    I am trying to reach around 600whp as efficiently as possible. I have about 8k to spend. I am tossing around all options. It seems so far FI is the way to go. I don't want to have to custom fab a bunch of stuff. Maybe I dont have enough budget to get to my goals.
    You dont. Even if you do it all your self and labor is ex-pen-sive. Im in pretty much the same boat as you. My current budget is 0. But after my car is paid off it will be about 1000 a week. From what ive seen you can expect about 10k+ just in parts to go over 600whp anotger maybe 5 or 6 in labor (estimated)

  5. #50
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lollygagger8 View Post
    Well I have the Mamo AFR 215 heads but Tony said I'm around 11:1. I could sell the heads/cam/102 intake/TB/ <- since I'm guessing that won't fit on the S/C opening. Maybe I'd be better going with LS2 heads P&P'd? Maybe get a better blower cam?

    LS6 here. And I want this "kit".

    Badly.
    Lolly!!

    If you're really interested in an E-Force I would not worry about the heads...you still have the stock bottom end, correct? You can definitely get a cathedral head version of the supercharger to keep the Mamofied heads, just forge the pistons and rods and drop the compression ratio that way. Just keep in mind that you need to stay around 9.8:1 Max (preferably lower) or it will be a dog to drive on the street. This is what happened to me, I had to pull every bit of timing out of the tune in lower RPM or it would knock pretty hard.

  6. #51
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DMM View Post
    If you plan on more than 5-7 lbs of boost, you're going to have to reduce your static compression ratio (SCR). I do not care what anyone tells you. If you cannot do this through piston reliefs you will have to step up to a cylinder head with a larger combustion chamber. I chose the latter and went with LQ4/9 "317" heads as they have the exact same ports, valves, etc only with a larger 72cc chamber.

    Martin Smallwood knows his stuff and you'll be in good hands. I used a Brian Tooley Stage 1 blower cam, and it works great. I suspect Martin would spec something in the same neighborhood.
    Yeah the LS6 with 243 heads w/64cc chamber (stock) are 10.5:1 CR. Slapping on some 317 heads w/72cc chamber drops it to 9.5:1 CR. No decking and just slap on a 317 head gasket.

  7. #52
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 253ctsv View Post
    You dont. Even if you do it all your self and labor is ex-pen-sive. Im in pretty much the same boat as you. My current budget is 0. But after my car is paid off it will be about 1000 a week. From what ive seen you can expect about 10k+ just in parts to go over 600whp anotger maybe 5 or 6 in labor (estimated)
    Eforce $6000
    Froozen boost IC $200
    Bosch IC pump $100
    Hose, relays, wiring, hardware $100
    DW300 fuel pump $200
    Tune HPtuners $600
    Wideband $200
    That would be dang close but also the absolute minimum

    Additional:
    Forged engine
    Headers
    317 heads
    Gaskets
    Arp hardware
    Mizeren IC pump
    iC fans
    Water meth injection
    Pulleys / ecs tensioner

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2007V View Post

    Eforce $6000
    Froozen boost IC $200
    Bosch IC pump $100
    Hose, relays, wiring, hardware $100
    DW300 fuel pump $200
    Tune HPtuners $600
    Wideband $200
    That would be dang close but also the absolute minimum

    Additional:
    Forged engine
    Headers
    317 heads
    Gaskets
    Arp hardware
    Mizeren IC pump
    iC fans
    Water meth injection
    Pulleys / ecs tensioner
    Yeah. I'm surely no expert, but I dont think the minimum would get you around 600hp. And going into a build I think id rather over estimate cost.

  9. #54
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    The top list would be close, but from what I've seen from other builds, Headers, Cam/Springs would be almost necessary for you to hit 600RWHP.

  10. #55
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    I have full OBX headers now. I can do the labor myself. If I go with the "kit" And it's around 6k. I do a head/cam package from tick.around 3.5k. Do you think that gets me there? With a retune/dyno from my tuner of course.

    ----------

    I should also be able to recoup some from selling the ls6 heads, manifold and Ported throttle body shouldn't I?

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranger2525 View Post
    I have full OBX headers now. I can do the labor myself. If I go with the "kit" And it's around 6k. I do a head/cam package from tick.around 3.5k. Do you think that gets me there? With a retune/dyno from my tuner of course.

    ----------

    I should also be able to recoup some from selling the ls6 heads, manifold and Ported throttle body shouldn't I?
    Id think so. Thats my plan. Except probly port ls6 heads

  12. #57
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    That sounds good as well. But Your compression is going to be a problem as far as what i am understanding. I want the larger chambers to lower my compression. I can run more agressive tune and get far more from the TVS if I am understanding what I am reading.

  13. #58
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger2525 View Post
    I should also be able to recoup some from selling the ls6 heads, manifold and Ported throttle body shouldn't I?
    Yes. There is a robust market, largely from the F-body crowd, for LS6 heads and LS6 intakes. The marketability of a ported a throttlebody depends on largely on who did the porting.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranger2525 View Post
    That sounds good as well. But Your compression is going to be a problem as far as what i am understanding. I want the larger chambers to lower my compression. I can run more agressive tune and get far more from the TVS if I am understanding what I am reading.
    My tuner said when they do the porting they can make the chamber bigger. That will solve the compression prob. He also said tge 243s with a good port job flow really well. Better than a lot of aftermarket heads.

  15. #60
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Apparently the vendor hasn't heard back from his sales rep from Edelbrock, so is now waiting to hear back from the VP of sales at Edelbrock

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