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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, V1 E-Force Thread in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; My build includes heads, cam, exhaust, fuel pump, BAP, and other goodies. Heads are the V2 heads that have been ...
  1. #31
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    My build includes heads, cam, exhaust, fuel pump, BAP, and other goodies. Heads are the V2 heads that have been ported and polished. This thing flows pretty well. I have the dyno sheet from the next to last dyno session on my phone but the forum says it is too big. I'll see if I can get it to upload but it is in my build thread already. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...t-build-4.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    That horsepower value doesn't make sense, based on a simple sanity check. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi at sea level, and you're realizing an additional 6 psi. 350*((14.7+6)/14.7)= 493 RWHP.

    At higher and higher boost pressures, this sanity check becomes increasingly non-conservative because it does not account for the decreasing density of the hot air charge and supercharger losses. For instance, it would predict that a 416 CID LS3 with 9:1 SCR (475 RWHP) would make 992 RWHP. But we know that that exact setup makes 750 RWHP on a V1.
    The temp of the air charge was definitely causing issues for me initially. The HE and pump provided in the kit had my IATs peaking around 150 degrees (on a 60 degree night). Now they are within 10 degrees of ambient. That allowed timing adjustments that resulted in most of my gains from 550 whp.

    Other than that I dont believe you are accounting for my other mods. If u are the I guess I am just lucky

    Kidding aside the thing pulls like an ox right now and I couldn't use more power if I had it. A new rear end is in my near future.

  2. #32
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sssnake View Post
    Came in at 650 hp and 6lbs of boost w the EForce.
    That's believable. I've seen dyno sheets with heads, cam, intake giving 450whp on LS6. Rule of thumb is 25whp for every 1psi...so that is in the ballpark of 600whp. Give it some aggressive timing with 93 pump gas and you're there.

    I bet it's a blast to drive!

    I've been trying to understand the merit of forging the bottom which comes-n-go with FI discussions. Back in the day (2 decades ago) you rebuilt with forged because the manufacturing process for aftermarket pistons was much much cheaper than expensive casting process for the varieties of engines and rebuilds etc. So you basically got forged...that and custom grinds for compression. I recall them being very noisy till the engine warmed up.

    ^^^Having said all that, other than a little more knock protection I don't see where it is a necessity to forge a bottom for moderate power goals taking the LS2/LS6 to 600-700whp with a great flowing engine.

    I am far from an expert with engine builds just trying to understand why sometimes the 'hype' of forging the bottom end becomes a necessity with some crowds when it comes to moderate power gains with FI. I do understand the differences with the grains and grain boundaries with forging vs casting as well as the manufacturing process.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post

    That's believable. I've seen dyno sheets with heads, cam, intake giving 450whp on LS6. Rule of thumb is 25whp for every 1psi...so that is in the ballpark of 600whp. Give it some aggressive timing with 93 pump gas and you're there.

    I bet it's a blast to drive!

    I've been trying to understand the merit of forging the bottom which comes-n-go with FI discussions. Back in the day (2 decades ago) you rebuilt with forged because the manufacturing process for aftermarket pistons was much much cheaper than expensive casting process for the varieties of engines and rebuilds etc. So you basically got forged...that and custom grinds for compression. I recall them being very noisy till the engine warmed up.

    ^^^Having said all that, other than a little more knock protection I don't see where it is a necessity to forge a bottom for moderate power goals taking the LS2/LS6 to 600-700whp with a great flowing engine.

    I am far from an expert with engine builds just trying to understand why sometimes the 'hype' of forging the bottom end becomes a necessity with some crowds when it comes to moderate power gains with FI. I do understand the differences with the grains and grain boundaries with forging vs casting as well as the manufacturing process.
    Like you said it comes down to safety margin. With all the additional systems in an FI build and aggressive tuning we have added complexity and reduced tolerance for issues. If you are not careful something will bite you. When you throw in the possibility of getting a low octane/bad batch of gas things can get ugly quick.

    ----------

    Forgot to mention one thing, it is NOT a blast to drive right now as my professionally installed clutch is dragging and my power steering rack bit it. Once I get these worked out you can stop by and take it for a spin. We need to get together at one of the Huntsville autocross events anyway.

  4. #34
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    It sounds like we're dealing with another case of the NA correction factor being applied to a FI build. Ssnake, can you check your dyno sheet to see if SAE or STD was applied?

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    I'll try to dig them out. This is one of four cars I am modding right now so I try to keep everything electronically. So if it is not in the pic in my build thread (didn't see it when looking via phone) I likely won't have it.

    ----------

    Actually there is a dropdown window that has SAE J1349 selected. I guess I need to read up on why that is not correct for FI cars.

  6. #36
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sssnake View Post
    Like you said it comes down to safety margin. With all the additional systems in an FI build and aggressive tuning we have added complexity and reduced tolerance for issues. If you are not careful something will bite you. When you throw in the possibility of getting a low octane/bad batch of gas things can get ugly quick.
    Thanks.


    Forgot to mention one thing, it is NOT a blast to drive right now as my professionally installed clutch is dragging and my power steering rack bit it. Once I get these worked out you can stop by and take it for a spin. We need to get together at one of the Huntsville autocross events anyway.
    That's the 3rd bad rack reported in the last 2 months here and LS1tech - sheesh! Are you having disengagement problems with your clutch? There is an interesting thread on LS1tech modifying the clutch master cylinder:

    http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-c...ter-cts-v.html

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    Yep, disengagement problems. I saw the thread and was following but thanks for the heads up.

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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    What happened to kit that was being developed a couple of months ago? Is it more straight forward than this?

  9. #39
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger2525 View Post
    What happened to kit that was being developed a couple of months ago? Is it more straight forward than this?
    No kit and most likely never will be. The LS2 is easy, the LS6 is a little more work although the hard stuff had already been figured out.

    A member on the other board is working with a vendor to get what we can use for a decent price for the box1 pieces. Everything else is easily sourced. If you cannot order the stuff separately I'll gladly take the markup.

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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    The OP on the other thread quoted me a price of $6550 and some change. Said it came with everything including instructions. I wouls have to get an LS2 TB and strut brace. Also modify my hood.

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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger2525 View Post
    The OP on the other thread quoted me a price of $6550 and some change. Said it came with everything including instructions. I wouls have to get an LS2 TB and strut brace. Also modify my hood.
    I believe DMM & sssnake have identified parts of the kit that are inefficient and/or waste of money that would ultimately not be used. Basically meaning that if you can shed the kit for the core components and save some cash, you could apply that money towards better components.

    This is where a group buy on a core kit would be awesome if a vendor would release it at rock bottom prices. There is enough info floating around to piece together the rest.

  12. #42
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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Right - Tommy is negotiating with a vendor right now that has already given us a substantial discount on a group buy in the past, so it may be worth it to keep an eye over on the LS1Tech CTS-V forum for when something comes up. I am trying to document all of the parts that I used during my build (the final version) as the vendor may be able to provide these as well.

    The thing to keep in mind here is the LS2 is much less involved and less expensive. You can also opt to use LS3/L92/LSA heads on an LS2 and use the square port version (I believe the Camaro/G8 Box 1).

    For the LS6, you'll have to supply these additional parts over and above the LS2 '06 - '07 CTS-V's:
    - Standard LS1/LQ4-9/L33 valley cover. You will have to drill the bolt holes so the counter sunk bolts can be installed.
    - Must upgrade to the LS2 Throttle body/harness
    - Must upgrade to the '06 - '07 strut tower brace. Have no idea if the '09+ will fit our application.
    - Use a brass 3/8" NPT street 90* (re-threaded to fit the block) for the oil pressure sensor.

    After Tommy gets a final deal on everything I'm sure he'll start a separate thread, which will likely be linked here.

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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Should I work the ls6 heads or go with another set of heads?
    Also plan on using whatever cam tick racing recommends unless you guys know a better option.

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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    Here is some fun reading material:
    http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...ng-thread.html

    Hit or miss on the porting the LS6 heads but resale price is always good. Mamofied AFR heads flow really well based on the numerous threads floating around with flow data and dyno numbers. Might want to add Tony Mamo to your call list.

    ***Edit***
    Without getting into specifics, just as you would get a custom cam for your set-up, you need the same with the heads. Chicken vs the egg which decides what. You can go with larger port volume/combustion chamber to lower CR and make it boost safer but still have to have the flow velocity - and a good cam to mate with those heads and supercharger.

    Get all that and nice flowing exhaust, fueling, and great tuner - take it up to 8psi and snap some axles.

    Mix-n-match incorrectly (or not optimized) and you're a tuner's nightmare.

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    Re: V1 E-Force Thread

    I am trying to reach around 600whp as efficiently as possible. I have about 8k to spend. I am tossing around all options. It seems so far FI is the way to go. I don't want to have to custom fab a bunch of stuff. Maybe I dont have enough budget to get to my goals.

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