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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Parts List for Build in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; ...
  1. #1
    sssnake's Avatar
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    Parts List for Build

    Ok guys it is about to get really serious and I could use some help. The car is an 07 Thunder Grey (w chromaflair) CTS-V. The goal for the car is around 600hp to the wheels with tons of pull at all rpms. The mods to date include:

    Part Description
    Exhaust Corsa Cat back
    Springs GC Coil Over (quasi)
    shock/strut Cadillac FG2 Shock/strut
    Skip Shift Elim Wait4Me (i think)
    Axels Hendrix Eng 1000hp

    Already Ordered but not on car:

    Part Description
    Blower Edelbrock TVS 2300
    wheel Forgestar F14
    Header Kooks 1 7/8" Headers (uncoated)
    Cats Kooks Cats/Connectors
    Shifter PISNUOFF Shifter
    Shifter Bushing UUC

    Part that I will be ordering within the next week:

    Part Description Part Number
    Header wrap DEI 10110
    Starter Heat Shield DEI 10402
    TPMS Sensor Dorman 974-015
    Mounts/Bushings RevShift Motor Mount PMM-CTS
    Mounts/Bushings RevShift Trans Mount PTI-CTSA
    Mounts/Bushings Creative Steel Diff Bushing 31
    Mounts/Bushings Creative Steel Diff Block 48
    Fuel System adaptors Fuel hose FRA-371012
    Fuel System adaptors Fuel Rail Adaptor RUS-644020
    Fuel System adaptors Fuel Block RUS-650400
    Fuel System adaptors Take Off Fittings RUS-670343
    Fuel System adaptors AN O ring to AN Adaptor SUM-220166B
    Oil Pump Melling Oil Pump MEL-10296
    Head Bolt/Stud ARP Head Studs ARP-234-4317
    Head Bolt/Stud ARP Head Bolts ARP-134-3609
    Thread Sealer ARP Thread Sealer ARP-100-9904
    Assembly Lube ARP Ultra Torque Ass. Lube ARP-100-9909
    Cam Comp Custom Grind (Pat G) 13156R/13161R HR120 LSA +2 advance
    - 218/238 .598"/.615" 120 LSA +2 adv
    Lifters Stock LS7 12499225
    Lifter Tray Stock LS2 12595365
    Pushrods Trend 3/8”-5/16”, 0.135” wall TBD
    Front cover gasket Stock LS2 12633904
    Head LSA Head 12610716
    Intake valve LSA Stock 12605223
    Exhaust valve LSA Stock 12582719
    Exhaust valve GM 1.59" Sodium Filled exh 12605525
    Rockers Yella Terra YT 6667
    Valve Cover Gasket Yella Terra YT 5132
    Spring kit Brian Tooley .65" Duals sk002
    Head Gasket LS9 Head Gasket 12622033
    Plug Wires Taylor Cable 98006
    Plug Sox DEI 10542
    Plugs NGK TR6IX 3689
    Heat sheaths DEI 10403
    Clutch Kit katech LS9R KAT-A6189
    Remote Bleeder Katech KAT-A4824

    If you see anything missing and would recommend a different part let me know but provide an explanation for your receommendation.

    Also, I have a few things areas where I really can't make up my mind...

    First, to wrap or not to wrap. The headers are uncoated. Kooks recommends the headers NOT be wrapped and NOT be coated. I am afraid that wires, hoses, and etc. could be damages. Everyone seems to have there on opinion of this subject but are there certain hoses/wires/etc. that I should heat sheild if I leave these unwrapped. I already have high temp plug wires and cool sox and a starter blanket.

    Second, are head studs that much better. I'm an EE not ME and I really am having a hard time believeing that the studs are worth the extra cheddar ($130). Also the thought of the studs becoming an obstruction in the engine bay is an additional cause of concern. This is a spirited daily driver with some autocross and an OCCASIONAL track trip car. SHould I really go stud vs bolt?

    Third, would you go with the solid exhaust valve or the sodium filled. The sodium filled obviously shed heat much better but I am afraid they are also more delicate.

    Fourth, I have seen some users having issues with the Katech LS9R clutch. What else would you recommend?

    Any suggestions on where to purchase the parts is welcome as well. Summit seems to have a little higher prices but they have almost everything I need. I will be doing a ton of research on this as I don't want to waste time or money.

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    BTW - forged pistons/bottom is the next step in mod hell.

    ----------

    Well that sux. All of the formatting disappeared. I'll try to post an image as well to make it easier to read.

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  3. #2
    PISNUOFF Guest

    Re: Parts List for Build

    I've exploded two LS9 pressure plates and I only have 500ish to te tires. Go with something that is not a strapped design. I have abused an RPS for over a full year now and it still grabs perfectly.

  4. #3
    alradco's Avatar
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    Re: Parts List for Build

    Nice list. I would not wrap the headers.

  5. #4
    sssnake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PISNUOFF View Post
    I've exploded two LS9 pressure plates and I only have 500ish to te tires. Go with something that is not a strapped design. I have abused an RPS for over a full year now and it still grabs perfectly.
    Thanks ill look into the RPS.

  6. #5
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    DMM
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    Re: Parts List for Build

    First off, it looks like you are using LSA heads rather than cathedral heads...why? The stock cathedral heads will not be shrouded by the smaller bore, and will maintain velocity giving you better drivability during low throttle/RPM driving on the street (which only serves to compliment the long runners on the Edelbrock TVS 2300, BTW). Cathedral heads will not be a restriction here, especially with boost sitting behind your intake valve. If you are that serious about it, have TEA or AI port your OE castings, or step up to AFR. Scrap the roller rockers, not needed and will not benefit you in the least...get the Comp Cams trunion upgrade though. I wouldn't mess with heads or lifters until you forge the motor, honestly. You may already have the LS7 lifters installed as OE.

    Kooks does not recommend wraps or coating b/c the stainless steel they use does not hold heat, and if you introduce a wrap or coating, it will and fatigue the metal to failure. I can drive all day and be able to touch the headers after 5-10 minutes of sitting. Granted, I say all of this and still wrapped my Kooks 2/3 anyhow, LOL.

    Studs>bolts. Studs will always be stronger for the simple fact they only have the force applied that is attempting to stretch the stud. Bolts (ARP), while much stronger than OE bolts, have the both the forces trying to stretch the bolt AND has the added rotational force when tightening the bolt to spec. Bolts are fine though, you rarely need studs unless you plan on seeing 30+ PSI of boost. There are guys throwing turbos on junk yard 5.3's with the OE TTY (torque to yield, aka stretch bolts) still in place with 25-30 PSI of boost making 750 WHP.

    Forget Wait4Me, and forget about the Hendrix axles. Call Creative Steel and get their 8.8 kit and be done with everything (the diff, axles, driveshaft) forever. The skip shift can be deleted in the tune...you can have someone tune it for you or get EFI Live or HP Tuners and learn yourself (which is more fun).

    I will be installing my E-Force upon my return home from UAE. Here is the thread that I started immediately before my departure, which I have added a few pieces and outlined my intentions...http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-c...ery-today.html

    Best of luck to you!

    Edit: That cam Pat G spec'd is suspiciously similar to the KDI Street Sweeper cam that many of the V2 guys have used for some time now with excellent results...why not just go with a proven performer?
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...eeper-cam.html
    shadybx7 and shadybx7 like this.

  7. #6
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    Re: Parts List for Build

    Quote Originally Posted by DMM View Post
    First off, it looks like you are using LSA heads rather than cathedral heads...why? The stock cathedral heads will not be shrouded by the smaller bore, and will maintain velocity giving you better drivability during low throttle/RPM driving on the street (which only serves to compliment the long runners on the Edelbrock TVS 2300, BTW). Cathedral heads will not be a restriction here, especially with boost sitting behind your intake valve. If you are that serious about it, have TEA or AI port your OE castings, or step up to AFR. Scrap the roller rockers, not needed and will not benefit you in the least...get the Comp Cams trunion upgrade though. I wouldn't mess with heads or lifters until you forge the motor, honestly. You may already have the LS7 lifters installed as OE.

    Kooks does not recommend wraps or coating b/c the stainless steel they use does not hold heat, and if you introduce a wrap or coating, it will and fatigue the metal to failure. I can drive all day and be able to touch the headers after 5-10 minutes of sitting. Granted, I say all of this and still wrapped my Kooks 2/3 anyhow, LOL.

    Studs>bolts. Studs will always be stronger for the simple fact they only have the force applied that is attempting to stretch the stud. Bolts (ARP), while much stronger than OE bolts, have the both the forces trying to stretch the bolt AND has the added rotational force when tightening the bolt to spec. Bolts are fine though, you rarely need studs unless you plan on seeing 30+ PSI of boost. There are guys throwing turbos on junk yard 5.3's with the OE TTY (torque to yield, aka stretch bolts) still in place with 25-30 PSI of boost making 750 WHP.

    Forget Wait4Me, and forget about the Hendrix axles. Call Creative Steel and get their 8.8 kit and be done with everything (the diff, axles, driveshaft) forever. The skip shift can be deleted in the tune...you can have someone tune it for you or get EFI Live or HP Tuners and learn yourself (which is more fun).

    I will be installing my E-Force upon my return home from UAE. Here is the thread that I started immediately before my departure, which I have added a few pieces and outlined my intentions...http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-c...ery-today.html

    Best of luck to you!

    Edit: That cam Pat G spec'd is suspiciously similar to the KDI Street Sweeper cam that many of the V2 guys have used for some time now with excellent results...why not just go with a proven performer?
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...eeper-cam.html
    Thanks for the inputs! The reason I am going with the LSAs is they are made from a different grade aluminum and casting process than the LS2s that is stronger than my stock LS2s. The 243s currently on the car will be going on my sons WS6. This swap therefore benefits two cars with a single investment. On the subject of proting, I have seriously considered having WCCH port the heads. I am still trying to determine if they would provide an appreciable gain in performance for the money spent. The V2 guys seem to see minimal gain with porting of the LSAs. Most consider porting to be the lowest priority in a build on the LSA engine. I am currently sitting on the fence and comments like these are exactly what I expected. Thanks again.

    Interesting comment on the roller rockers. I am trying to ensure higher valve train stability and lower wear with the rollers. For the price I have wondered if they were worth the investment and will discuss this with my tuner. If anyone else has comments on the yella terras, let me know. Like I said these are one of those components that are high dollar and if they don't provide adequate return on investment then I will scrap them.

    The comments on ths studs are what I expected. I understand the theory behind them but I was looking for practical application type data. 25-30 psi is no where I would want to be even if I could get there but it is a great data point. Thanks!

    the Hendrix axels and skip shift eliminator are already on the car. The CS rear end upgrade is pretty pricey IMO. I have had numerous V1 guys making big power suggest that if you get rid of the wheel hop the differential will hang in. Well we'll see. Once tuned I will get the skip shift elminiated in the software and remove the physical part.

    I wanted to go with a Pat G spec'd cam for a couple of reasons. One everything I read seems to almost tie up the lose ends for what to look for in a blower cam but not quite get there. The suggested cams from Texas Speed, Lingenfelter, and a few others seemed to be all over the map in terms of overlap. The LPE GT9 has had reported low speed drivability issues with several users. Most say it can be tuned out with a few tricks but several reverted to the LS9 and preferred it... The bottom line is for $25 I got professional advice that I trust. The fact that it came out very similar to an off the shelf cam that is working well for the V2 guys just further promotes that I made the right choice and that this cam will work well.

    Again thanks for taking the time to review this and good luck with the build. What has taken you to UAE? I assume military service. If that is the case thank you for your service to this nation.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PISNUOFF View Post
    I've exploded two LS9 pressure plates and I only have 500ish to te tires. Go with something that is not a strapped design. I have abused an RPS for over a full year now and it still grabs perfectly.
    Tried to PM you but yoiur inbox was full...

    Do you have a recommendation on a specific clutch and vendor? I have not found a lot about RPS and everywhere I see their products they are pretty steep. I understand you have to pay for quality but don't want to overpay. Since you have been down this road before I thought you might have some insights.

    Thanks Again!

  8. #7
    PISNUOFF Guest

    Re: Parts List for Build

    I got mine from someone who is no longer in business. It was $1850 for flywheel, disc and pp assembly. That was the cheaper option with one carbon fiber disc and one organic disc. The double carbon fiber one was about $2300.

  9. #8
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    Thanks!

    The one thing I left off of the list was the fuel system upgrades. In initial research I thought going to a Walbro in yank 255lph pump would do the job but after digging a little deeper it appears this is not a good solution. I looked at the Aero unit but they don't recommend them wo a return line. I have now been looking at the Deatschwerks DW300 but even this pump seems to be on the ragged edge. I assume that I will need to go with one of the BAPs as well. Has anyone used this unit and do you need the BAP as well?

  10. #9
    CTS V Tuner is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Couple observations.

    With the rockers, what is the mass difference between stock w/trunions and the Yella Terra? A lighter rocker body alone benefits as it doesn't tax the pushrods or eat up spring pressure. If the overall design provides greater accuracy through less deflection and more consistent machining, it's not necessarily a bad investment even if its only worth 2hp.

    Sodium is a metal, this isn't salt we're dealing with, so don't think in terms of weakness. Think more temperature control as the sodium filled valves manage temperature better. If the cost isn't significantly more, they are the better choice.

    Head studs vs head bolts: Are studs a pain in the but if you have to service the engine in the car? You bet. But ARP has added a hex to the top of the majority of their studs so that you can remove and install them more easily, so pulling the studs out in the car to get the heads off takes 10 minutes or so, and thus it's not a big deal. Bolts are easier, but as stated above, they put twist into the fastener during the torquing procedure and quite a lot of stresses on the threads in the block, and if the holes are blind, excess thread lube can cause compression issues in the bolt hole resulting in inconsistent torque values and blown head gaskets later. Studs take the stress and move it to the nut, also eliminating inconsistency and distributing the force into the block and head mor equally.

    For the fuel system, remember that the BAP is essentially a step-up transformer, raising pump voltage beyond the pumps design voltage to squeeze out a little more flow. Your best bet is larger pumps, either a single or parallel twins, heck some Mustang guys run up to four pumps in the tank now. There are 400lph pumps available that offer essentially the same profile as the 255 you were looking at.

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    Thanks!

    On the rockers, the first thing that steered me towards the rollers was tearing down a stock head that had 150k+ miles on it and looking at all of the play between the rocker and the valve spring/top of the valve. Once torqued appropriately they didn't exhibit a ton of play but valve train stability can't be outstanding once you get north of 5000 rpms. I'll do more research before I pull the trigger.

    On the fuel system. I am an EE so I understand the BAP operation but I have never been a fan of upping voltages to get more work out of an electric motor. While increasing the voltage keeps you from running into issues with the associated wiring it still causes the motor/pump to generate more heat. Not a good thing for something immersed in a flammable environment. Besides the wiring will be replaced anyway.

    I haven't seen the 400 lph pumps but I will do a little more digging.

    Again thanks for all of the comments as this stuff is pretty new to me and this is a big build on a daily driven car.

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    I forgot to touch on the sodium filled valves. Yeah I know they weren't filled with table salt. However in description of their operation it appears that the sodium melts and sloshes up and down in the stem. For that to happen I wouldn't think the sodium would be adding significantly to the structural rigidity of the valve. So in my mind it is a trade off between rigidity and thermal management. Without models for each I'm just not sure what I should choose and input from guys like you with some experience helps greatly.

  13. #12
    CTS V Tuner is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Here's a worthwhile read:

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...e_designs.aspx

    The section on cooled valves in particular is an excellent explanation and should answer the majority of your questions,

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    Re: Parts List for Build

    Thanks! Good read.

    Does anyone know if the dual fuel pump assembly on the 09 and up V2s will work in the V1 cars. I realize we don't have the FPCM and thus PWM signal to the pump assembly but if the bucket fit we could get a high flow pump assembly with one pump on the standard circuit and the second on a hobbs switch.

  15. #14
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    Re: Parts List for Build

    The fuel tank in the V2 is completely different, and unfortunately b/c of the V1 design, it is no easy task (or inexpensive) to remedy the shortcomings. The easiest, cheapest solution would be a surge tank and external pumps, which isn't cheap either.

    I believe that Lonnie (Lonnies Performance) had a working design for a V1 at one point in time, for someone that had a stout N2O system installed, but was deemed too expensive by the owner of the car and was never used.

    The OE fuel system is almost as poorly designed as the rear.

    Edit: One thing I forgot...do not try the Aeromotive 340 pump, they will not warranty it when installed on a V1. They say the jet pump that feeds the module is not sufficient for the pump, and this is what leads to its early demise. The people running the DW 300 seem to be doing quite fine, however.

  16. #15
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    Re: Parts List for Build

    It seems that I may have been incorrect in my last post, as it appears that my better judgement was clouded by internet rumor. I have been researching different options as I was not entirely impressed with what Lonnie suggested. Anyhow, I just got back from the dealer that I used to work for and was on the GM Dealer World system doing some research...it looks as if the V2 fuel module would be a direct drop in to our tanks. A few things would have to be done, however:

    1. You would have to purchase the harness pigtail with the module and splice the existing circuits into this. The module consists of two 200lph pumps, which the FPCM controls by means of a 25kHz PWM signal to the pumps to achieve the desired fuel pressure. For use with a V1, you would have to connect the primary pump to run all the time through the existing OE connections, and then wire the second pump to run with a hobbs switch when under boost conditions. I believe the V2 FPR is set to 65 PSI instead of 58 PSI as in the rest of GM's vehicles.

    2. I don't know if the fuel level sensor is the same/compatible with our fuel gauges.

    3. The V2 does not have an external fuel filter or return line as the V1 does, however this is a rather simple fix. The fuel supply can be installed to an external fuel filter (it would be a Cavalier style filter) that is connected to the steel fuel line, or it can be connected directly to the steel fuel line itself.

    As I said, I am looking at a few different options, and already have a DW 300 pump and Ractronix Hotwire kit already on the way. The OE V1 fuel module is ideal if you would like to have a boost referenced regulator, since the V1 fuel module already has a external return port.

    I think I am going to try and redesign the internals of the OE module and have the DW pump feed the fuel output of the module directly, bypass the in tank regulator, and install a regulated fuel filter (from the Corvette) externally. This way the output of the pump is free and I can upgrade to a boost referenced FPR much easier in the future.

    EDIT: I found an aftermarket FPCM that uses a PWM signal based upon a fuel pressure sensor, just as with the OE V2 setup...http://vaporworx.com/

    Check out the "Fuel System Control" tab, that's what i am referring to. No idea what the cost is.

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