05 V Engine Build Questions
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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, 05 V Engine Build Questions in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Ok here's the dilemma. My brother has an 05 V with 56k miles on it and he wants to either ...
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    V-swagon's Avatar
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    05 V Engine Build Questions

    Ok here's the dilemma. My brother has an 05 V with 56k miles on it and he wants to either build up the current 5.7 to handle a Maggie or find a used LSA and mod it to drop in. Here are several options we are thinking; pull the current 5.7, put a Callie's forged internal stroker kit, ported or aftermarket heads, bigger cam, and a Maggie on top. Another opinion would be to build a 6.0 truck block to the same stuff listed above and sell the current 5.7. Next option might be to find a used LSA and do a complete swap. Our goal is to have close to 600 rwhp if possible with either setup. It will get the LS7 clutch and bigger half shafts also. Which would be the best option to go with? There is a budget of about $10-$12k for the total build.

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    CTS V Tuner is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Ok, the LS6 is a good package, has some of the best engineering in the block design, and has good cylinder heads. 600rwhp is pretty easily attainable with minimal mods to the LS6.

    Slightly less compression might be desirable, but I would try to maintain 9.0-9.5:1. Good pistons, rods and crankshaft are insurance against failure, but a stock crank isn't going to break at your power goal. Upgrade the rods and pistons and go. Or - get a 6.0L block and Callie's rotating assembly, but if you do that push the stroke up and get the displacement into the 400" area.

    The LS6 heads will support your power goals without porting, but a bowl port and a blend backed up by a good valve job and maybe better valves would be awesome. The LS6 head will be fine on a 5.7 bore, but would make more power on a 6.0 bore because you un-shroud the valves moving the cylinder wall away from the valve.

    The right cam will do wonders for your pursuit of power, and properly designed will continue to idle nicely, because a V shouldn't sound like something the kid down the street would be driving.

    Now, taking the cost of the Maggie into consideration, half your budget evaporates just to make boost. Rotating assemblies aren't free, and if you buy a 6.0L truck motor and sell your LS6, you're still on a pretty tight budget. Even with the axle and clutch upgrades you mentioned, you haven't addressed fuel delivery, tuning, cooling system upgrades, and things like motor mounts. It's a worthy car to spend the money on though, so by all means go for it!

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    Re: 05 V Engine Build Questions

    Maggie as in our usual 112? I don't think you'll get 600 rwhp out of a Maggie.
    And I'm not sure, but the LS7 clutch might not be enough for 600 rwhp on a 400 lb car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTS V Tuner
    Ok, the LS6 is a good package, has some of the best engineering in the block design, and has good cylinder heads. 600rwhp is pretty easily attainable with minimal mods to the LS6.

    Slightly less compression might be desirable, but I would try to maintain 9.0-9.5:1. Good pistons, rods and crankshaft are insurance against failure, but a stock crank isn't going to break at your power goal. Upgrade the rods and pistons and go. Or - get a 6.0L block and Callie's rotating assembly, but if you do that push the stroke up and get the displacement into the 400" area.

    The LS6 heads will support your power goals without porting, but a bowl port and a blend backed up by a good valve job and maybe better valves would be awesome. The LS6 head will be fine on a 5.7 bore, but would make more power on a 6.0 bore because you un-shroud the valves moving the cylinder wall away from the valve.

    The right cam will do wonders for your pursuit of power, and properly designed will continue to idle nicely, because a V shouldn't sound like something the kid down the street would be driving.

    Now, taking the cost of the Maggie into consideration, half your budget evaporates just to make boost. Rotating assemblies aren't free, and if you buy a 6.0L truck motor and sell your LS6, you're still on a pretty tight budget. Even with the axle and clutch upgrades you mentioned, you haven't addressed fuel delivery, tuning, cooling system upgrades, and things like motor mounts. It's a worthy car to spend the money on though, so by all means go for it!
    Thanks for the info. I will be doing all the machine work along with assembly. That should reduce some of the cost. I know the rotating assembly is a little over $3000. The Maggie and a tune I think will be in the ball park of $6500. It doesn't leave much room for miscellaneous stuff. My brother will more than likely go with the 6.0 and sell off the 5.7 minus the accessories. His goal is to have a reliable high HP car and still compete with a modded V2. Do you think the LS9 cam would be a good cam? What type of cooling mods would be required?

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    Re: 05 V Engine Build Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Twitch View Post
    Maggie as in our usual 112? I don't think you'll get 600 rwhp out of a Maggie.
    And I'm not sure, but the LS7 clutch might not be enough for 600 rwhp on a 400 lb car.
    Agree.

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    Re: 05 V Engine Build Questions

    Whatever you do, it sounds pretty ambitious.

    If you're primary goal is to be at 600 rwhp, you will need more boost than an MP-112 can easily get you, and of course you'll need to beef up the bottom end (as you've indicated). If you swap motors, you're going to complicate things a bit regarding PCM compatibility though with proper attention you can solve that.

    If you actually do something, make sure you post up as much detail and step-by-step progress as possible. We all love reading these.
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

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    Re: 05 V Engine Build Questions

    600 rwhp is not going to happen with a mp-112 on an ls6 especially with a 10-12k budget, you would be hard pressed to get that kind of power out of that little blower period. I would say at least a pullied down 2300 sitting on a set of rect. port heads with a good blower cam. You have to figure in tuning, injectors, fuel pump setup, axles, rear end, Clutch etc.. LS7 clutch is not going to hold 600 rwhp, you're into twin disk territory ($$).

    If you swap an LSA, you will still need all the fuel system and drivetrain upgrades, but also a different harness and ecu. LSA = $$, even a take out is gonna be pricey, plus you will have to get at least another 100hp out of it to get into the ballpark of your goal.

    You can probably build a motor that will produce the power you want for 10-12K, but it won't be driveable without the supporting mods, and it certainly won't happen with a MP-112.

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    Well, I guess we can build the long block to handle the future potential super charger. Or my brother can lower his expectations of the rwhp. What would the best potential HP the 6.0 could put out with a stroker setup, ported square port heads, cam, headers, and tune? What would be the best super charger to use? What type of fuel system would be the best for this type of setup?

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    CTS V Tuner is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    If you are not in an area where visual emissions inspections occur (like here in California), maybe consider a centrifugal supercharger like a Procharger or a Vortech, or turbocharging. It would require some fabrication skills because there are no bolt on kits for our cars, but it is also a viable way to reach the power goals.
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    Re: 05 V Engine Build Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by V-swagon View Post
    Well, I guess we can build the long block to handle the future potential super charger. Or my brother can lower his expectations of the rwhp. What would the best potential HP the 6.0 could put out with a stroker setup, ported square port heads, cam, headers, and tune? What would be the best super charger to use? What type of fuel system would be the best for this type of setup?
    Only problem with that is that with building the motor for boost down the road, you're going to build the motor with lower compression which will make it sluggish until you get the blower. I would just wait a few months and do it all at once. Start buying the parts and then do the swap when ready.

    YEARS ago I had a C5. Stock long block, threw on a small blower and made about 500rwhp with long tubes. That was using the P1SC1. If you go to a D1 you will easily make 600 to the wheels. You don't need anything radical and the car will run great. If money is a factor I would just go with a forged shortblock, stock LS6 heads, intake, long tubes, and you should be there. Should be within your budget as well.

    Peter

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    Re: 05 V Engine Build Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by CTS V Tuner View Post
    If you are not in an area where visual emissions inspections occur (like here in California), maybe consider a centrifugal supercharger like a Procharger or a Vortech, or turbocharging. It would require some fabrication skills because there are no bolt on kits for our cars, but it is also a viable way to reach the power goals.
    ^^^ This would probably be your best bet in this case. You could build it on the current LS6 in the car and run it at a lower power level, build your forged motor in the mean time and upgrade the drivetrain as you break it/have the money. Then throw the new motor in, crank the boost/pulley down and have a monster on your hands.

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    Thank goodness we don't have emission checks around here anymore. The 6.0 was free. It had a lower end knock prior to being pulled. One of our friends sells performance parts and gives us a good deal on parts. After the engine is built, my brother will have some sort of super charger on top of it prior to installing it in the car. We'll have to figure out the rest of the components as we go.

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