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2004-2007 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, CTS-V E-Force thread in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2004 - 2007; Originally Posted by philistine Ahh, found some parts. So bumping to the top. Yeah, got my tax returns and ready ...
  1. #16
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    Ahh, found some parts. So bumping to the top. Yeah, got my tax returns and ready to burn a hole in my wallet!
    Engine build time? I think it's a relevant question, given the impact of having to choose between a cathedral port and rectangle port style.

  2. #17
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    philistine is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    My crystal ball is showing me...rectangles.

  3. #18
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    My crystal ball is showing me...rectangles.
    Have you contacted Mast? They make a basic 416 CID LS3 intended for FI, and when I called them last year, the guy was willing to do aftermarket oil squirters, a full range of Swain Tech coatings, Callies Ultra connecting rods, and a Callies DragonSlayer crank as upgrades.

    Mast 416 CID LS3 short block

    Mast 416 CID LS3 Black Label long block (includes Black Label LS3 256 heads)

    Mast 440 CID LSX Black Label long block (includes Black Label LS7 305 heads)

  4. #19
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Have you contacted Mast? They make a basic 416 CID LS3 intended for FI, and when I called them last year, the guy was willing to do aftermarket oil squirters, a full range of Swain Tech coatings, Callies Ultra connecting rods, and a Callies DragonSlayer crank as upgrades.
    Now that is quite a performance list! Those are marquis parts!

    I'm shopping for an LS3, looking for deals. I haven't looked at Mast but I turned away from looking at TexasSpeed. I wanted the Eforce to bear some low cost fruit and snatch one while I continue my search for a deal on an engine.

  5. #20
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    Now that is quite a performance list! Those are marquis parts!

    I'm shopping for an LS3, looking for deals. I haven't looked at Mast but I turned away from looking at TexasSpeed. I wanted the Eforce to bear some low cost fruit and snatch one while I continue my search for a deal on an engine.
    If you just want their normal 416 CID FI shortblock with oil squirters, I believe they'll charge you about $5500 shipped. I asked for a ROM estimate last year, and while he wouldn't give me a hard number, he did give me an upper bound.

  6. #21
    BigDaddy-V is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    Hey Philistine,

    You might try looking into THompson Motorsports. THey are in Texas too but they are close to me in the Dallas area. His website kind of sucks at the moment but he is a good guy to talk to on the phone. He does alot of his own machining there at the new shop he just built. If you are still looking around that is.

    BDV
    philistine likes this.

  7. #22
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    +1 for Kyle Thompson.

  8. #23
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Engine build time? I think it's a relevant question, given the impact of having to choose between a cathedral port and rectangle port style.
    Ok let's just clear any confusion - what are the limitations if you get a cathedral port for a LS6/LS2 then get a LS3? There are fitment issues due to the ports? I'm wondering if cathedral ports limit the applicability with the inventory of LS6/LS2 engines as the market moved to LS3 since 2008.

  9. #24
    RyRidesMotoX is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    Quote Originally Posted by philistine View Post
    Ok let's just clear any confusion - what are the limitations if you get a cathedral port for a LS6/LS2 then get a LS3? There are fitment issues due to the ports? I'm wondering if cathedral ports limit the applicability with the inventory of LS6/LS2 engines as the market moved to LS3 since 2008.
    Are you talking about a cathedral port blower on rectangular port heads? I would think it would be ok given that it is forcing air in there. But, I wouldn't do it personally. Especially since you can pick up a set of bare LS3 heads for like $700 a pair new, less if you brows classifieds on other forums. Its not that expensive to have them machined, a valve job done and have them fitted with good springs and valves. When you consider the kind of money your putting into the build to start with, by the time you factor in going with a gen4 block, it just makes sense to get a rectangular port head and then have the blower manifold match it. I'd save up and do it right the first time so you don't have to spend extra time, frustration, and money doing it again later. Not only that, but you have to figure, when you get the new motor in, you can sell the LS6 you have in the car for a decent chunk of change.

    Side note, a LS2 is a gen4 motor. It will accept rectangular port heads and from what I have seen, its cheaper than the LS3s. For me it's whatever I can get out of a junkyard for cheapest, seasoned blocks are preferable from what the local machinists have told me. I'd say get the heads first, have them machined, buy an LS2 short block, toss on the heads and get it running. Then you can put it in and drive it til you can afford the blower. More and more, when I consider my build, I think that's what I'm going to do. Build it for boost and have it punched out to 400+ cubes. Then, when I can, do a procharger F-trim, twins screw or TVS on it and crank up the boost with some E85, go hurt feelings.

    OOOOOR you can have your cathedrals machined and hooked up, put your blower on em, and put them on a built LS2 later on instead of going rectangular ports. I like rectangular ports because they have more room to grow.

  10. #25
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    ^^^That's not exactly what I was talking about. I had the idea of LS6 guys running some small bore LS3 heads so they can have the rectangle ports and make use of those blowers that use rectangle ports. It's not that common and asking anyone around my area just gives me a blank stare.

    SIG-054 at LS1tech used the Mast small bore LS3 heads and had some impressive results: http://ls1tech.com/forums/17878376-post24.html

    Quote Originally Posted by SIG-054 View Post
    346 ls1 with arp rod bolts no flycuts

    Isky 243/250@109 camshaft
    Custom adj Jesel rockers 1.7
    3/8 pushrods
    K800 .700" dual springs
    Morel street link bar lifters
    Shaved .030 off the heads
    Cometic .040 gaskets
    Std ls3 intake 92mm tb
    OTR intake, k&n filter
    Customised circle d converter, 5000 stall speed
    Built 4l60e
    Pedders xa coilover suspension
    265/40 18" et streets

    Looking at the Mast website, they sell for $2k pair: http://www.mastmotorsports.com/view.php?id=354&c=18&s=4
    Part Number: 510-201
    Price: $1999.98 Pair

    Easy bolt on to convert your GM Gen III to GM Gen IV head technology
    Perfect for LS1 and LS6 engines and short-blocks
    Accepts LS3/L92 valvesprings, rocker arms, and intake manifolds
    Outflows any aftermarket cathedral cylinder head on the market
    Uses a 2.080" intake valve and 1.600" exhaust valve
    Has a 63cc combustion chamber standard
    6 Bolt Standard
    Has a deck thickness of .750"
    Configure your cylinder heads now

    Flow Data w/3.900" Bore Plate
    Lift Intake Exhaust
    0.100 76 57
    0.200 147 110
    0.300 218 172
    0.400 274 214
    0.500 318 234
    0.550 333 242
    0.600 342 248
    0.650 349 252
    0.700 353 257
    Maybe someone can chime in who has more experience to weigh the differences:
    cathedral ports, 243 heads, Eforce vs rectangle ports, Mast small bore LS3 heads, Eforce (assume proper blower cam for each)

    Any thoughts?

  11. #26
    dedeaux89 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    I really like those Mast heads. I'm wondering how much I could get for my set up to go that route. Any idea what a package deal of PRC 227cc Heads, Tsunami Cam .654/.609 235/240 111 LSA, fast 102 intake and tb are going for?

  12. #27
    2007V is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    I thought the eforce would bolt to cathedral port heads?

  13. #28
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2007V View Post
    I thought the eforce would bolt to cathedral port heads?
    It does and it will but you have to use part #1595 which uses the cathedral ports. Basically, if you have a gen III engine (cathedral ports) then you have to use cathedral ports on the blower. If you change your heads to Gen IV (rectangle ports) then you can use rectangle ports on the blower. The idea is to upgrade the heads and at the same time buy a blower that has a late model design - more marketable if you decide to sell.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dedeaux89 View Post
    I really like those Mast heads. I'm wondering how much I could get for my set up to go that route. Any idea what a package deal of PRC 227cc Heads, Tsunami Cam .654/.609 235/240 111 LSA, fast 102 intake and tb are going for?
    No clue on the resale value of your heads/cam/intake/tb - lol. I'll probably call Mast and then find some experience feedback from LS1tech. Just a FYI Ballistic Speed Parts have similar heads:

    Stage 2 $1899.99 pair

    Our Stage 2 heads feature fully CNC’d Intake and Exhaust ports and they are the most powerful heads we have available. After extensive engineering and prototyping, we’ve developed a CNC program that enhances the LS3 port design to flow huge numbers with our redesigned valve configuration.

    Our Stage 2 cylinder heads are intended to extract every ounce of power out of your LS1/LS6/LS2 at every RPM, whether you have factory displacement, a stroker, or forced induction application.

    Our Stage 2 heads also include high quality intake and exhaust Ferrea Racing stainless steel valves.

    Minimum Bore Required: 3.898”

    Features:

    New GM LS3 Castings
    Fully CNC Intake and Exhaust Ports
    Engineered for aggressive LS1/LS6/LS2 applications
    270cc Intake Runners
    91cc Exhaust Runners
    Ferrea Stainless Valves Included (Custom Machined)
    - 2.08” Intake Valve/1.57” Exhaust Valve
    Performance Valve Job w/ hand blending at port to valve seat transition for highest flow
    Minimum Cylinder Bore Required: 3.898”
    Milled to your specs

    Flow Data:
    Lift Intake Flow Exhaust Flow
    .100″ 70 CFM 63 CFM
    .200″ 148 CFM 125 CFM
    .300″ 221 CFM 174 CFM
    .400″ 282 CFM 205 CFM
    .500″ 326 CFM 241 CFM
    .550″ 331 CFM 256 CFM
    .600″ 340 CFM 267 CFM
    .700″ 350 CFM 279 CFM

  14. #29
    FuzzyLogic is offline Banned
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  15. #30
    2007V is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: CTS-V E-Force thread

    Sure if you have or want to spend all that money. Or you could just use a set of 317 heads and see if it lives. If the motor breaks then forge the ls6. The power will still be high.

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic View Post
    Another reason why you don't want to buy a cathedral-port blower is because you're tying yourself to an old architecture that's not very compatible with more modern shortblocks and camshafts.

    For instance, if you break your stock LS6 motor with an E-Force at 8 psi and you want to upgrade to a 416 CID LS3 stroker, you're going to have to buy the new motor AND a new blower. That would suck. Of course, this also applies if you upgraded to a LS3 blower and want to build something like a 427 LSX that wants LS7 heads.

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