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V2 rotor/caliper retrofit for V1 cars

86K views 285 replies 48 participants last post by  AAIIIC 
#1 ·
Front Caliper V2 to V1

Has anybody tried Using the front 6 piston caliper on the first gen cts v? Wheels and Rotors will also be changed out for clearance . Any Information would be great. Long time reader first time posting
Thank you
 
#182 ·
Hey AAIIIC, thanks for crunching the numbers. It's good to see the computation regarding the new bias, as well as the M/C's suitability for moving enough fluid.

While it is impressive that there is any solution at all for this, what with our wacky 6-lug design, I just wish a cheap rotor alternative was available. Paying more for the rotors than the 6-pot calipers is hard to get past, especially on a fairly stock car that is 99% street driven. The new calipers look badass and I'd love to rock them, but the stock stuff is just so good on a stock car.

I appreciate all the pictures and descriptions Yooper, so we can live vicariously with those big ass brakes. I am curious, when you say the ABS never kicked in, is that because you never needed to brake that hard, or are the tires so grippy that the brakes couldn't lock them? I've never driven a car with anything but street tires, so the race-tire level of grip is an unknown to me.
 
#185 · (Edited)
I am curious, when you say the ABS never kicked in, is that because you never needed to brake that hard, or are the tires so grippy that the brakes couldn't lock them?
Just speculation here, but yooper may be getting into the ABS and just not realizing it. I had an ABS wheel sensor that was intermittently going bad (broken wire) at a track event. Some sessions ABS worked fine, some sessions it stopped working in the middle of the session, some sessions it didn’t work at all. When it decided to stop working, I was quite surprised at the number of spots where I would lock up the brakes if I wasn’t careful, particularly in a couple of spots where there were pavement undulations in the braking zone or the suspension was unweighted in the middle of the zone. I had never felt ABS kicking in previously (and I know what ABS feels like), but once the wheel sensor died and the ABS was out of action I realized it was kicking in unobtrusively and helping me out when I didn’t realize it.

Of course, there's a difference between "riding" the ABS in the braking zones and having it periodically step in when a wheel is unweighted by a bump or whatever. I try to threshold brake without hitting the ABS, and I imagine yooper does the same.

side note...yooper, how well has that oil cooler held up in that postion behind the front wheel? Seems like it would be prone to getting hit with tire pickups and rocks, etc...
And what is that cooler? Is that the GMPP tranny cooler?
 
#183 ·
Yooper did you say you trashed those Grand Am Cup tires already? Car looks a bit lower . Did you get the coil overs on?
 
#184 ·
Good info...
side note...yooper, how well has that oil cooler? held up in that postion behind the front wheel? Seems like it would be prone to getting hit with tire pickups and rocks, etc...
 
#186 ·
The cooler is the GMPP trans fluid cooler. What you don't see is the hole cut in the inner fender liner with protective mesh covering the opening to the cooler. That location is not ideal or as effective as it could be IMO. I plan to do a combo trans/diff cooler with dual pass on the trans section this winter. Cooler pumps should be manually controlled instead of thermostat. More to come later.

Back to brakes; Cooling of brake rotors is key. Yes, once I got comfortable with the Hoosiers, I found it easier to threshold brake. With cooler brakes and/or sticky tires there appears to be more feedback. At Road America I like to brake hard once, rotate the chasis just enough to be back at full throttle by the turn apex and just let the car track out.
This requires trust in your brakes and tires and of course the correct line but, once I got the combination it was easy to duplicate. IMO fully utilizing the available brake torque once provides a quick heat rise and more time to cool before the next cycle. Timing and matching tire/brake compounds are critical so you can get off the brakes before getting caught up in the ABS cycle which generates heat.

Yes I did take all the grip out of the conti's, but I practiced quite a bit on a private roundy round track to find the limits of the harder compound which put quite a few heat cycles on the tires. Running the track clockwise helped as there are more right turns at RA and there was plenty of room for the many spins until things started to work. If one spins out on a track and no one sees it, does that mean it didn't happen?

I did not lower the car yet. Still running FG2 with Hotchkis sways and probably a little more negative camber than needed now. The pictures where the rear appears to be lowered was just pure luck on the timing of the photo. The camera caught the right moment where the chasis rotated and full throttle had been applied.

Even though the rotor castings being used for the V2 calipers throw a lot of air by design, I run 3" brake ducts and may have to go to 4" on the more technical short tracks.

I plan to run a tire with softer compound hoping for more grip.
 
#188 ·
Yooper was kind enough to provide us with these pictures of my Team Dynamics on his V2 caliper/rotor project at Road America this weekend. No issues with fit whatsoever. Bill has put a tremendous amount of thought and work into this project and has consulted and planned with lots of folks that we didn't even know about. We owe him big time for this effort. I'm sure he will be reporting back on his findings on all the new goodies he's been prototyping.

Road America was our last hurrah for the year. I managed to wring every last drop out of the V for the season. I corded my Conti GACs and turned my UUC 2 piece rotors into the shape of potato chips for the ride home. Talk about warped. The interesting thing was the event was so full that the open novice group was full of last minute entries (like Bill and I ) which meant there were novices, intermediates, and advanced drivers in our group. That made things interesting.





 
#191 · (Edited)
They got too skinny. I should have replaced the rings about three track days ago. I corded my GACs so I ran Sunday on my Yoko AD08s which put even more stress on the rotors. All in all the UUC rotors are serving me well.
 
#198 ·
I made them from .063 alum that was laying around. They go between the steering knuckle and hub bearing in place of the light metal heat shield that the ABS harness attached to. Attach 3" hose and route to pickup location of your choice. I pulled the 3 screws out that secure the turn signal running light assembly and replaced with homemade inlet assembly.

Working on another version leaving the light assembly in and using the factory inlet. Version 2 will be more user friendly, looking for strong material that is the same thickness as the OEM heatshield, for street driving just stuff a nurf ball in the inlet and pull the ball out when you get to the track. Should have product available after the first of the year.
 
#199 ·
Thought you guys might want to see what the Racing Brake Rotors looked like.
I picked them up in person and the Racing Brake guy Warren is very dedicated.
He is working on Stainless Steel piston replacements for our 6 Pot Calipers.

Something to note is that the hardness on these rotors is much higher than most.
He tests each rotor on a Rockwell machine before shipping.
Therefore not all pad compounds are suitable.
Ceramic compounds should be avoided (Carbotech for instance).
He does sell Hawk and his own Racing Brake Brand of pads, so those are tested and known to work well.
 

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#202 · (Edited)
Hi Guys,

Sorry this took so long.
I gave my camera away and did not get a new one yet.
Had to make due with a camera phone shot.
Gas


The Front Rotor Plates are 5/16" Thick.
The Rear Rotor Plates are 1/4" Thick.

I also gave my scale away so I can't weigh these untill I get one.
I don't doubt the weights on the Racing Brake Site but I sure do want to verify them.

I will most likely run Factory Pads.
I was impressed with the track performance of the factory pads on 6-pot calipers at the Cadillac V Series Performance Academy.
It can only be better on a 300lb lighter V1.
I don't think there is a better all purpose pad than the factory pads.
They have; no squeek, easy on rotors, impressive fade resistance.
Only downside is dust.
Of course, they cant hold a candle to a full track pad, but no streetable pad can.
 
#205 ·
Lacking?
Compared to what and for what use?
I feel that for a 100% streetable pad they hold their own fairly well on track.

What would you run if you could only run 1 pad (on a V2) for everything?
(not our case but a good question to put the goodness of factory pads in perspective)
 
#206 ·
I chose to stick with RB pads ET500 and ET800, so I won't have to worry about conflicting pad compounds. There may be "better" track pads out there, but I'm on street tires and still driving novice. ET500s on the street, then swap to the 800s for events. Haven't driven on the 800s yet.
 
#209 ·
Can't fault a guy for running DTC-30 on the street. :yup:
No argument on those performing better than the stock pads.

How is rotor wear and squeeking in street use?

Also, can you get DTC-30 for the rear calipers?

---------- Post added 12-08-11 at 12:10 AM ---------- Previous post was 12-07-11 at 11:56 PM ----------


Which ones died at the track, ET-500 or ET-800?

There is a big price difference between those 2 pads.
I would not be a bit surprized if the ET-500's died.
However, if you stepped up for the much more expensive ET-800's and they let you down, that would be interesting news.
 
#208 ·
I felt the stock pads to be a bit soft under hard braking. They left a soft pedal and stopping distances seemed a bit longer than when running Hawks. I run Hawk DTC-30 pads for the street and auto-x. I've run it on the track and it works very well. But someone said if you get them too hot, the pads effectiveness falls off. I didn't see that at Summit Point so I doubt you'd ever see that on the street.

But the DTC-30 has excellent bite, even when cold, and gives good feedback. I've run them the past 2 summers(April to November) and still have them on now. And the stopping distances are noticeably better than stock...

---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

I then run Hawk DTC-70 for the front pads, DTC-60 for the rear when on the track now...
 
#213 ·
You might have me convinced to try DTC-30 as an all-around pad, if offered in an embedded backing surface version.
I didn't see DTC-30 listed for the rear calipers (on the Hawk website).

They would not crack your rotors with street use just grind them down.
If you got 30K on your rotors, then no worries.
 
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