Has anybody tried Using the front 6 piston caliper on the first gen cts v? Wheels and Rotors will also be changed out for clearance . Any Information would be great. Long time reader first time posting
Thank you
I thought about it and never got to researching but i always wondered besides lookf if wed actually get better braking thats even noticeable. I think a good pad change and fluid change with stainless lines would be just as good as just swapping to the 6 pistons.
I thought about it and never got to researching but i always wondered besides lookf if wed actually get better braking thats even noticeable. I think a good pad change and fluid change with stainless lines would be just as good as just swapping to the 6 pistons.
I agree with you too. Not sure the V1 has enough tire to make use of the bigger brakes. The V2 is a heavier car, has more power and has a little more tire. It would probably be more cost effective for the V1 to do the dot 4 fluid, pads, lines and 2 piece rotors.
The car will have larger tires and more HP 650 brakehp na. I have a caliper being shipped to me so we will see if this can work, Maybe just a bracket engineered? who knows
Moving in that direction also. Couldn't find the normv thread on the Z06 rotors but did pick up the ZR1 5 lug racing hubs and would be very interested in either V2 or aftermarket 6 piston caliper/front rotor compatabilty.
There are only 2 companies that sell a direct bolt on for the first gen V. 1) AP Racing kit for the 6 piston front and 4 piston rear are about 5k. 2) ROTORA has 8 piston front 4 piston rear 15in rotors and requires a 19in wheel.and about 5k
The 6 lug hubs are very strong/ and if you are going to track the car you should get a racing wheel(curbs can hurt). Most of the Co. who sells real racing wheels should be able to accomodate you for the 6 lugs. Forgeline/ CCW. etc..as for Rotors "Racing Brake" makes some very good 2 piece rotors for our cars about $900.00 for the front/working on another thread to have them make a rear set.
They bolt right into the front of the 2004-2007 CTS-V. Same pattern. The only issue is the rotors having 5 lug, which is really not an issue if you speak with manufacturer of those rotors and ask for undrilled blanks. You can then have rotors redrilled to 6 lug pattern quite easily.
25851237 CTSV ROTOR
25912477 CTSV Caliper
25912967 CTSV Caliper
21012386 Copper washer
25940448 Caliper Pin Kit
11570788 Caliper bolts
25940447 CTSV Brake pads
RUS639560 Front only bleeders
RUS639560 Rear only bleeders
RUS639560 Front & Rear bleeders
They bolt right into the front of the 2004-2007 CTS-V. Same pattern. The only issue is the rotors having 5 lug, which is really not an issue if you speak with manufacturer of those rotors and ask for undrilled blanks. You can then have rotors redrilled to 6 lug pattern quite easily.
25851237 CTSV ROTOR
25912477 CTSV Caliper
25912967 CTSV Caliper
21012386 Copper washer
25940448 Caliper Pin Kit
11570788 Caliper bolts
25940447 CTSV Brake pads
RUS639560 Front only bleeders
RUS639560 Rear only bleeders
RUS639560 Front & Rear bleeders
would the stock 18" wheels clear these front 6 piston calipers?
also, can we use the 4 piston bake lines? I'd hate to toss my UUC stainless steel lines.
the complete front caliper swap would cost around $900 plus rotors, which is not bad at ALL. This might be my next mod. We could sell the front calipers for a decent price too, i think the GTO guys do the swap.
According to the information I got, the '09+ CTS-V uses the same PCD that BMW/Corvette/F-body do. Wonder if the rotor center bore is also equal at 72 mm.
Rotor is $244 ea, caliper is $376 each and pads is $266. The rest is small change. The front brakes alone cost nearly $1.5k, add four very expensive SKF hubs and total will hover around $3k or so. Add wheels/tires (19-inch minimum, correct ?) and optionally do something about the rear brakes.
I'll stick to my 4-pot, it's already more than enough. If anything I'd get better pads and improve venting to front brakes and maybe even add cooling vents for the rear, somehow.
Rotor is $244 ea, caliper is $376 each and pads is $266. The rest is small change. The front brakes alone cost nearly $1.5k, add four very expensive SKF hubs and total will hover around $3k or so. Add wheels/tires (19-inch minimum, correct ?) and optionally do something about the rear brakes.
I'll stick to my 4-pot, it's already more than enough. If anything I'd get better pads and improve venting to front brakes and maybe even add cooling vents for the rear, somehow.
LOL, it was not my intention to come across as buying everything new. If you had seen my 5-lug conversion, you should see how everything was procured at heavily discounted rates.
Judging that SKF hubs are usually used in road course duty, lightly-used units are very rare. I can see using used calipers and rotors (if you can find them since V2 just came out last year), but pads ?? Junkyards are probably going to sell the 6-piston calipers and rotors at premium prices.
Trust me, those prices I posted, they were discounted already. Go to a GM dealer and get yourself a price quote.
Just wondering, don't know if anyone's given it any thought or anything. But what would this do to the brake bias? I assume bigger caliper, larger diameter rotor, it would move the bias more frontwards.
However, in that picture on the Camaro board, the pistons in the 6-piston setup are fairly small. Does anyone know what the total piston area is of the OEM 4-piston front vs the 6-piston?
I've never tracked my car or anything, so I may be talking out of my ass. But the general impression to me is that the CTS-V has much more balanced/even brake bias than most any GM car I've driven before. They generally have a heavy front bias, which makes the car more predictable, but means stopping distances aren't as good as they could be, as the rear tire is being under-utilized. The V seems to brake fairly evenly, it doesn't dive or anything, which suggests fairly even bias (though it could just be very stiff front springs, but the car doesn't ride like they are).
It would be hard to predict the change in bias without all of the technical specifications on the calipers.
Hard braking from high speeds with grippy tires transfers more weight forward (while lightening the rear) and additional front bias would be welcome under those conditions.
Therefore, I am hoping for an increase in front bias.
My main reason for doing this upgrade is fade resistance and longevity.
Larger rotors should handle heat better and also provide a torqe advantage.
Larger pads, with more material, should endure heat better and last longer.
Something to keep in mind, it's more important to cool these brakes down before stopping, as that large pad will retain heat, in a larger area of the rotor, when the car is stopped.
I won't know how it all works untill it's done.
Has anyone done it yet?
It would be hard to predict the change in bias without all of the technical specifications on the calipers.
Hard braking from high speeds with grippy tires transfers more weight forward (while lightening the rear) and additional front bias would be welcome under those conditions.
Therefore, I am hoping for an increase in front bias.
Right, I get what you are saying, and that's why I was wondering if anyone knew the specs on the piston diameters in the stock and V2 caliper. I'd just say, your car already transfers weight on the front when braking, and the system is already set up around that from the factory. When you hammer the brake pedal, the rears don't lock up before the fronts, so more front bias simply takes away from what the rears could be doing.
And I get why you want it. On a road-course or something, predictable brakes that can take more heat would matter much more than a small shortening of stopping distance due to using the rears to their potential.
What I really wondered was if, in a single high-speed panic stop, would this have a worse stopping distance due to altering the bias further frontwards? As you said, no way to know without the specs, or without trying and measuring it.
Update: 6 piston calipers are available from Luke @Lindsey Cadillac. First thing you have to do is drill out the spindle from 12mm to 14mm because the new caliper requires 14mm bolts. they will fit on your stock rotors, but you will have to remove aprox 4-mm of brake pad because it overhangs on the leading edge of the rotor. The brake lines look very close but I have not broken open the brake line as I am waiting for the 2 piece rear rotors from Racing Brake to do the entire thing at once.When I did a mock up It looks like maybe and I say again maybe you still can use your stock wheel with about 3-4mm clearance at the top of the caliper and wheel. Ideal would be to have aftermarket wheels built with a big brake design.This photo is with a 18in 11in wide CCW corsair wheel with the 2 piece Racing brake open slotted rotor and 6 piston v2 caliper. More Updates to follow....
Update: 6 piston calipers are available from Luke @Lindsey Cadillac. First thing you have to do is drill out the spindle from 12mm to 14mm because the new caliper requires 14mm bolts. they will fit on your stock rotors, but you will have to remove aprox 4-mm of brake pad because it overhangs on the leading edge of the rotor. The brake lines look very close but I have not broken open the brake line as I am waiting for the 2 piece rear rotors from Racing Brake to do the entire thing at once.When I did a mock up It looks like maybe and I say again maybe you still can use your stock wheel with about 3-4mm clearance at the top of the caliper and wheel. Ideal would be to have aftermarket wheels built with a big brake design.This photo is with a 18in 11in wide CCW corsair wheel with the 2 piece Racing brake open slotted rotor and 6 piston v2 caliper. More Updates to follow....
its funny this is the same exact thing I had to do with my last car to run the larger brakes the newer version came with. I might still have my 14mm bit at home. glad to see this thread is producing some results.
Just curious, why are you trying to use stock rotors instead of getting the 09V Rotors from Racing Brake?
They can provide them with the correct hat for your V1.
4mm of pad seems like alot to remove.
Is this overhang even across the outside radius of the rotor?
Just curious, why are you trying to use stock rotors instead of getting the 09V Rotors from Racing Brake?
They can provide them with the correct hat for your V1.
4mm of pad seems like alot to remove.
Is this overhang even across the outside radius of the rotor?
When I started this months ago (August) Racing Brake told me they were not going to make the rotor with the six lug hat. I put in a call back to them and I am waiting for a solid confirmation that they will produce this combo. If they do I will use the V2 rotors provided they will make an open slot and I can still use a 18 in wheel. ETA 6 months if they make these.
Considering the size of the pad 4mm is not too much just a PITA because to get a accurate cut it will have to go to a machine shop. GM High Tech performance did a article on the conversion on a camaro with the 6 piston and after speaking with Editor They too have a overlap, but after 100miles of track duty he said the pads were just fine. Just to be safe I would have them cut to prevent the overlap.
Yes the overhang is even across the rotor.
The photo attached is the 6 piston caliper on the stock 355x32mm rotor you can see the overlap
Still working on it. I have the pre 09 SKF X Tracker Hub Bearings mounted with V2 15" rotors and the V2 6 piston calipers.
The 15" Cadillac rotor center bore was a bit small for the good hubs.
The factory caliper mounting bolt are a bit long and hit the rotor. M14x2.0x55 work good.
If someone could ship me one front and one rear OEM CTSV-2 wheels (19x9 & 19x9.5), I will pay the freight both ways. Need for trial fitment.
Racing Brakes will supply the rear 2 pc rotors to fit the 5 bolt SKF hubs bearing units with the proper hat sizing and we can still utilized the parking brake. (check out the post on their website in the new development section of technical info).
Yes these racing hub bearings are expensive if you don't need them, these are an upgrade for the C6 Z06. If you do need them, this will be a very good deal.
First fitment was with C6 Z06 front rotors. I feel the Z06 rotors were too small to fully utilize the V2 calipers.
Pictures are available if someone wants to downsize and post them.
Thanks
Thanks for the info.
So the V2 Calipers on V1 Spindles line up perfectly with V2 rotors?
Did you also have to drill your spindle to fit larger caliper bolts?
Thanks for the info.
So the V2 Calipers on V1 Spindles line up perfectly with V2 rotors?
Did you also have to drill your spindle to fit larger caliper bolts?
I was always very happy with the V1's brakes and found Hawk Blue pads to be near perfect at the track. However, with a V2 full of guys crying as I did a HARD 90-0 panic stop, the brakes showed to have monumental stopping power. I'd guess my V2 with Hawk DTC-30s would well outbrake my V1 with Blues.
Damn sexy. Me want.
Only thing that sucks is upgraded calipers are a +2 point mod in NASA's Time Trials format when the stockers are already great anyway.
What else is really cool is that it looks to be you can fit a 15" rotor and 6 piston caliper underneath 18s.
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